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Countersteering

en.wikipedia.org

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Re: Countersteering

#31

Post by McNutty »

mort96 wrote: post #19
frankdejonge wrote: post #14

In the Netherlands, countersteering is part of any motorbike practical exam. This is not standard in a lot of companies, but it is such an essential skill. It literally saves lives.

I'm not sure what you mean by "it literally saves lives". Anyone who rides a single-track vehicle will instinctively do it any time they turn. Do you mean that having a more conscious relationship with how you countersteer when turning can help keep control in particularly difficult turns?

I really feel like when a motorcycle is travelling at greater than 30 40 or 50 kph, countersteering is the only way to steer. But doing it subconsciously and doing it with knowledge on the subject are 2 different feelings.

Re: Countersteering

#32

Post by mellavora »

arghwhat wrote: post #16
jpe90 wrote: post #9

When you lose traction in your car from rain or snow, your instinct is probably to countersteer, but you should instead steer into the turn and countersteer when you regain control. I can't remember if they actually taught that in driving school, but my dad had me deliberately lose traction repeatedly in a parking lot in the snow to get the hang of it. It saved my life a few times because I was a reckless idiot as a…

The proper response depends on the type of traction loss. What you describe is the appropriate response for understeering, but will amplify oversteering. Although to be fair, considering how common front wheel drive is these days, understeering is what us most likely to occur, and the proper response of following the failure is less intuitive than counter steering. On a "proper" 4x4 sliding, increasing throttle will…

> increasing throttle will often straighten the path of the vehicle irrespective of current steering input

"when in doubt, gas it out"

Re: Countersteering

#33

Post by HPsquared »

arghwhat wrote: post #16
jpe90 wrote: post #9

When you lose traction in your car from rain or snow, your instinct is probably to countersteer, but you should instead steer into the turn and countersteer when you regain control. I can't remember if they actually taught that in driving school, but my dad had me deliberately lose traction repeatedly in a parking lot in the snow to get the hang of it. It saved my life a few times because I was a reckless idiot as a…

The proper response depends on the type of traction loss. What you describe is the appropriate response for understeering, but will amplify oversteering. Although to be fair, considering how common front wheel drive is these days, understeering is what us most likely to occur, and the proper response of following the failure is less intuitive than counter steering. On a "proper" 4x4 sliding, increasing throttle will…

Even understeering, to recover grip you need to reduce the load (slip angle) on the front tyres- by straightening the wheel a bit. Not turning the wheel even further. So the same general principle applies, but it's less urgent when understeering as it's a kind of 'stable' situation.

Re: Countersteering

#34

Post by randlet »

mod wrote: post #24
CraigJPerry wrote: post #7

There’s a lot about riding a motorbike that feels counterintuitive. The way this article is written it sounds like you can only initiate the steer with a counter steer but even if you’re already in a bend you can provide a counter input to tighten your line and steer harder. It’s taught pretty early on for new riders and it saves lives. There’s loads of other weird things, because the rear tire is wider than the fron…

Big second recommendation for twist of the wrist. You can watch a pretty cheesy, but very informative version of it on youtube. Craig, thanks for the comment and recommendations. I think I'll check out Roadcraft.

"Pretty cheesy" might be a bit of an understatement but it's a good companion to the TOTW2 book.

Re: Countersteering

#35

Post by ekzy »

Uptrenda wrote: post #10

I'm now imagining some poor child's dumbfounded look as a HackerNews parent explains how to ride a bike by breaking down countersteering. lmaoo

From the Wikipedia article:

> While this appears to be a complex sequence of motions, it is performed by every child who rides a bicycle. The entire sequence goes largely unnoticed by most riders, which is why some assert that they do not do it.

Re: Countersteering

#37

Post by sph »

exDM69 wrote: post #4
rasz wrote: post #3

also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_flick

The original article is about counter steering in bicycles and motorcycles to initiate a turn, not counter steering (or "opposite lock") in a car (or motorcycle/bicycle) in response to oversteer. That said, they're quite all quite interesting phenomena in vehicle dynamics.

The flick is not about responding to oversteer. It's about using the physics of weight transfer to more easily negotiate a turn. On a rally car, the counterweight is the car itself, on a bike, it's the human.

Re: Countersteering

#38

Post by Hamuko »

arghwhat wrote: post #16
jpe90 wrote: post #9

When you lose traction in your car from rain or snow, your instinct is probably to countersteer, but you should instead steer into the turn and countersteer when you regain control. I can't remember if they actually taught that in driving school, but my dad had me deliberately lose traction repeatedly in a parking lot in the snow to get the hang of it. It saved my life a few times because I was a reckless idiot as a…

The proper response depends on the type of traction loss. What you describe is the appropriate response for understeering, but will amplify oversteering. Although to be fair, considering how common front wheel drive is these days, understeering is what us most likely to occur, and the proper response of following the failure is less intuitive than counter steering. On a "proper" 4x4 sliding, increasing throttle will…

>On a "proper" 4x4 sliding, increasing throttle will often straighten the path of the vehicle irrespective of current steering input - a fun quirk of locking differentials.

Just remember when you're not driving a four-wheel drive car if you learn to rely on this method.

Re: Countersteering

#39

Post by mod »

randlet wrote: post #34
mod wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big second recommendation for twist of the wrist. You can watch a pretty cheesy, but very informative version of it on youtube. Craig, thanks for the comment and recommendations. I think I'll check out Roadcraft.

"Pretty cheesy" might be a bit of an understatement but it's a good companion to the TOTW2 book.

The acting scenes are incredibly cheesy, and the rest of it is fine, just with a bit of a retro vibe. Dude's facial hair etc.

Re: Countersteering

#40

Post by Hamuko »

mort96 wrote: post #19
frankdejonge wrote: post #14

In the Netherlands, countersteering is part of any motorbike practical exam. This is not standard in a lot of companies, but it is such an essential skill. It literally saves lives.

I'm not sure what you mean by "it literally saves lives". Anyone who rides a single-track vehicle will instinctively do it any time they turn. Do you mean that having a more conscious relationship with how you countersteer when turning can help keep control in particularly difficult turns?

>Anyone who rides a single-track vehicle will instinctively do it any time they turn.

I've seen videos that suggest otherwise. Not linking it, since the last time I did, I got downvoted to hell and back for it.

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