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Countersteering

en.wikipedia.org

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Re: Countersteering

#21

Post by McNutty »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #7

There’s a lot about riding a motorbike that feels counterintuitive. The way this article is written it sounds like you can only initiate the steer with a counter steer but even if you’re already in a bend you can provide a counter input to tighten your line and steer harder. It’s taught pretty early on for new riders and it saves lives. There’s loads of other weird things, because the rear tire is wider than the fron…

Twist 2 is available for free on YouTube. Filmed decades ago but motorcycles are still mostly the same.

Re: Countersteering

#22

Post by thefz »

In mountain biking where you turn more by leaning the bike and rotating the hips, it is very evident that briefly steering by rotating the handlebar to the opposite direction points the head tube of the frame right into the turn, and then it's just a matter of straightening the handlebar and leaning into the corner.

Re: Countersteering

#23

Post by HPsquared »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #7

There’s a lot about riding a motorbike that feels counterintuitive. The way this article is written it sounds like you can only initiate the steer with a counter steer but even if you’re already in a bend you can provide a counter input to tighten your line and steer harder. It’s taught pretty early on for new riders and it saves lives. There’s loads of other weird things, because the rear tire is wider than the fron…

On the second point (the need to maintain light acceleration) I'd always thought this was more to counteract engine braking - if there is engine braking, that is more demand on the rear tyre, kind of like applying the brake - which takes up a bit of the "available" friction that could be used for cornering.

Re: Countersteering

#24

Post by mod »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #7

There’s a lot about riding a motorbike that feels counterintuitive. The way this article is written it sounds like you can only initiate the steer with a counter steer but even if you’re already in a bend you can provide a counter input to tighten your line and steer harder. It’s taught pretty early on for new riders and it saves lives. There’s loads of other weird things, because the rear tire is wider than the fron…

Big second recommendation for twist of the wrist. You can watch a pretty cheesy, but very informative version of it on youtube.

Craig, thanks for the comment and recommendations. I think I'll check out Roadcraft.

Re: Countersteering

#25

Post by vr46 »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #7

There’s a lot about riding a motorbike that feels counterintuitive. The way this article is written it sounds like you can only initiate the steer with a counter steer but even if you’re already in a bend you can provide a counter input to tighten your line and steer harder. It’s taught pretty early on for new riders and it saves lives. There’s loads of other weird things, because the rear tire is wider than the fron…

+100 for Twist of the Wrist Volume 2

Although I think Roadcraft has been "superseded" by IAM with a simplified version called "How to be a better driver", I would use both.

Re: Countersteering

#26

Post by KennyBlanken »

jpe90 wrote: post #9

When you lose traction in your car from rain or snow, your instinct is probably to countersteer, but you should instead steer into the turn and countersteer when you regain control. I can't remember if they actually taught that in driving school, but my dad had me deliberately lose traction repeatedly in a parking lot in the snow to get the hang of it. It saved my life a few times because I was a reckless idiot as a…

Your car understeering or oversteering is not countersteering.

Steering inputs to correct for understeer and oversteer are not countersteering.

Countersteering is specific to two-wheeled vehicles. Please read links before commenting...

Re: Countersteering

#27

Post by sph »

rasz wrote: post #3

also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_flick

Here's an example of a beautifully executed Scandinavian flick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CQ-fsoGkd8 — very common in rally driving.

Often it's very well modelled in rally games as well, and crucial for making the best times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhfW1Vwgek0

Re: Countersteering

#28

Post by Ambolia »

Am I missing something on the top diagram of the article labeled "A hypothetical curve on dry asphalt"? It has sections labeled "counterstearing" but I don't see any counterstearing in the movement marked in red. While on the real-life images below it clearly shows it.

Re: Countersteering

#29

Post by mod »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #20
jpe90 wrote: post #9

When you lose traction in your car from rain or snow, your instinct is probably to countersteer, but you should instead steer into the turn and countersteer when you regain control. I can't remember if they actually taught that in driving school, but my dad had me deliberately lose traction repeatedly in a parking lot in the snow to get the hang of it. It saved my life a few times because I was a reckless idiot as a…

We don't get enough snow here, particularly in the south of England, for me to to be a particular expert in driving in the snow but I don't think turning into the turn makes any more sense. The main aim is to try to get the wheels back in the state where they are experiencing rolling friction rather than sliding friction. Usually by opening the steering.

I believe you're saying the same thing.

Re: Countersteering

#30

Post by wildrhythms »

frankdejonge wrote: post #14

In the Netherlands, countersteering is part of any motorbike practical exam. This is not standard in a lot of companies, but it is such an essential skill. It literally saves lives.

How does this happen? In the U.S. we have the Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) which teaches a basic motorcycle riding course, and can give you a certificate for a motorcycle endorsement on your state license. One of their only prerequisites for the course is that you can ride a bicycle, because it guarantees the rider understands countersteering at low speeds before getting anywhere near a motorcycle.
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