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Code sober, get things done drunk

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Re: Code sober, get things done drunk

#61

Post by nyrb »

bstar77 wrote: post #15

I've coded twice while buzzed and had great results. I think it may have done something to curb my ADD, which led to some serious focus and feeling of motivation- I was able to focus on problems without other distractions floating in my mind. I figured the code quality would have suffered, but that wasn't the case. I rarely drink so I would not do this regularly, but I would like to find a less destructive way to ach…

Maybe this is true..

people with ADD/ADHD who get lightly buzzed might have boosted their focus.

I have noticed that when I drink a single IPA beer and I can think better, write code better, etc.

Re: Code sober, get things done drunk

#62

Post by glenbo »

I work at a startup that has an amazing office, with a full bar and eight taps for draught beer. This makes it easy to knock back a few while coding throughout the day/night. I'd dare say, that the availability of free drinks coupled with a culture that promotes drinking as a social lubricant is just about the most tempting atmosphere possible.

Surprisingly, people do not take advantage. I think some less mature people may like to brag about how much they can code whilst drunk, but it's just like any other drug: If you can do X, Y, and Z incredibly well while under the influence, odds are you'd do even beter while sober.

If you can "get shit done" while drunk b/c you're no longer afraid of the awkward situations, odds are you'd do even better at handling them sober.

We've never had an awkward situation where someone checks in epically bad code due to being sloppy-drunk that I'm aware of, but that's b/c people are largely self-policing and they realize that what you an manage to do drunk, you can dominate sober.

I don't wish to sound like a prude. We do enjoy the refreshments, but usually after-hours, or at least when doing exploratory R&D, perhaps playing with a new design. To do your best work on the most important projects at a startup, you really to to bring your "A" game.

Re: Code sober, get things done drunk

#63

Post by tommi »

mmaunder wrote: post #57

My first thought is that you're opening yourself up to litigation. I drink wine and occasionally code with a glass of wine - the easy stuff, and I only commit the next morning. However, making strategic decisions, dealing with human issues and sending external communications is a bad idea. Someone I'm close is a former CEO and majority shareholder of business that generated 8 figure yearly revenue. His advice to me w…

I agree with what you say about the effects of alcohol. However, with small amounts, a glass of wine for example, the positive effect of getting things done is way bigger than the negatives for most people. Procrastinating and putting things off for weeks like the author is far worse than little bit of insensitivity in a mail.

Of course it's better if you don't need any toxics to live your life happily.

Re: Code sober, get things done drunk

#64

Post by kevinalexbrown »

mmaunder wrote: post #57

My first thought is that you're opening yourself up to litigation. I drink wine and occasionally code with a glass of wine - the easy stuff, and I only commit the next morning. However, making strategic decisions, dealing with human issues and sending external communications is a bad idea. Someone I'm close is a former CEO and majority shareholder of business that generated 8 figure yearly revenue. His advice to me w…

You wouldn't sign an email with "Also, I'm drunk right now" but that's effectively what you've done here.

Kudos for honesty, but you've now put a time stamp that says, roughly, "I acknowledge being under the influence on Nov 27 2011, and further, this allowed me to behave differently than I normally would." Anyone you've interacted with today can go back to it. It's not just that you might be making bad decisions - you are publicly acknowledging that those decisions were made while drunk.

Re: Code sober, get things done drunk

#65

Post by eneveu »

I've tried coding drunk. It was a disaster - even a couple of beers had me really struggling to produce anything worthwhile. I decided coding was like driving - you need all your faculties to work. [...] I've read things where people brag about coding drunk, and frankly I've been jealous that I couldn't do it. Or code tired, fuelled by nothing but pizza and coffee.

I'm reading Uncle Bob's latest book: "The Clean Coder". In chapter 4, "Coding", he writes about his set of rules and principles for coding (behavior, mood, and attitude while writing code). About 3 AM code, he writes:

The worst code I ever wrote was at 3 AM. [...] I remember feeling so good about myself for the long hours I was working. I remember feeling dedicated. I remember thinking that working at 3 AM is what serious professionals do. How wrong I was! [...] The moral of this story is: Don't write code when you are tired. Dedication and professionalism are more about discipline than hours. Make sure that your sleep, health, and lifestyle are tuned so that you can put in eight good hours per day.

I think this is solid advice. He later says that "The Zone" (aka "flow") should be avoided, which is more controversial... ;)

Re: Code sober, get things done drunk

#66

Post by Duff »

burgerbrain wrote: post #39
Duff wrote: post #34

Sounds to me like a recipe for a bad habit. If you have a problem doing "awkward" things like firing people, paying bills, etc, you need to figure out the root of your anxiety and deal with it. If numbing yourself with alcohol is how you get through, you may find yourself turning to the bottle more. Alcohol isn't tea or coffee, and boorish behavior isn't a measure of whether alcohol is affecting your life.

Why does "having difficulties firing people" have to have a "root cause" other than "you think of yourself as a fairly decent guy and understand the effects getting fired has on somebody" ? This is just pop psychology mumbo jumbo.

Having difficulty firing someone is normal -- I'm not suggesting that it should be fun. Drinking Gin to give yourself the nerve to fire someone probably isn't fine.

If you have a job to do, you need to be able to do it. If the psychic toll of doing your job requires that you hit the bottle, you probably don't belong in that job.

Re: Code sober, get things done drunk

#67

Post by MichaelGG »

lrt wrote: post #25
itmag wrote: post #14

Well I'm drinking Absolut Vodka right now, but that's just 'cause I'm hung over. Writing code is the farthest thing from my mind right now... Seriously though, let's start a discussion about better coding through chemistry in general. Nicotine patches? Smart/nootropic drugs? Supplements? Preferred caffeine delivery vectors? Etc. What works for you? Anyone tried Modafinil?

I've tried Adderall, Ritalin, etc, and sometimes I'm able to concentrate on the things I need to get done, but unless I'm really careful about saying focused I end up going off on tangents and writing the most amazing but useless code for several hours. Experimenting with crazy metaprogramming techniques, writing over-engineered utility libraries, experimenting with new technologies, writing epic blog posts, etc. Tha…

Yep - stimulants will give you amazing focus, but you need to make sure that focus is trained on the right thing first. It's best to take them after you're more-or-less on track, or at least committed to a plan. If you just take them while going through a "morning routine" and haven't decided what you're going to be doing, you can easily burn a day on tangents.

(As a third party, you can notice this behaviour in others if those folks are prone to calling you with all sorts of great ideas and things they're going to do today, but by the evening, they're discussing how to improve TLB cache hit ratios for their Ruby-on-Rails app.)

But if you get on track, wow, stimulants can make an amazing amount of difference. They're great for getting a large amount of work done, as well as dealing with complex problems.

Re: Code sober, get things done drunk

#68

Post by enneff »

tptacek wrote: post #33
jpdoctor wrote: post #31

> But I think that doing some of the shittier tasks around a startup is easier after a few drinks. And when you realize that the drinks are just an excuse, you will be one step closer to enlightenment.

I don't think this is a fair comment at all. Drinking definitely does alter distractibility.

I think jpdoctor has a valid point. The brain is highly suggestible. It's possible to trick yourself into feeling sad, happy, irritated, bored, excited, or any other state of mind. I could probably conjor up the kind of carefree, impulsive state that alchohol induces just by mindfully directing my thoughts for a few minutes.

Re: Code sober, get things done drunk

#69

Post by hmottestad »

Dear ....

I admire the work you have put into our project, thank you very much for your efforts. However at this point we would like to look elsewhere for a different perspective. We have a certain style in mind that we do not think you will be able to provide.

We are sorry to have to say this, but unfortunately we will not be able to take advantage of any further contributions from you. The contributions to date will be compensated in full.

The very best of luck with your future prospects.

Sincerely, jfkdsjfls fjdsklfj

----INSTEAD OF-----

I'm afraid your writing style doesn't fit with what I'm looking to publish. That's not a criticism of your style, it's just a reality. I'm sorry not to be able to go any further. I wish you all the best and will, of course, pay you for the the work you've done so far. If you'd like to have a chat with me that's fine, you've got my number.

Re: Code sober, get things done drunk

#70

Post by burgerbrain »

Duff wrote: post #66
burgerbrain wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does "having difficulties firing people" have to have a "root cause" other than "you think of yourself as a fairly decent guy and understand the effects getting fired has on somebody" ? This is just pop psychology mumbo jumbo.

Having difficulty firing someone is normal -- I'm not suggesting that it should be fun. Drinking Gin to give yourself the nerve to fire someone probably isn't fine. If you have a job to do, you need to be able to do it. If the psychic toll of doing your job requires that you hit the bottle, you probably don't belong in that job.

There is a keen difference between not being able to fire somebody while sober, and preferring to not do so. Similarly I can not drink at parties, but I can do so as well, so I do.

You are mistaking responsible drinking for dependancy.

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