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Poll: Should you work for yourself or take a full-time job?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Poll: Should you work for yourself or take a full-time job?

#81

Post by spywaregorilla »

dieselgate wrote: post #79
spywaregorilla wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather my parents leave me a bundle of cash rather than saddling me with their startup.

This made me laugh because of the frankness. I interpreted the above as being more “sustainable small business” than a startup but maybe it’s irrelevant.

It's hard though. Running a business is a full time job. Most businesses need to adapt. Handing over control to kids might not sit well with current employees or those with a financial interest in it. And the kid may very well want to do literally anything else and now be unable to do so. Especially if the business is not easily sold or would be seen as against the family wishes to do so.

If it's just a financial interest in a business that the kid won't be controlling, then it's just money anyway.

Re: Poll: Should you work for yourself or take a full-time job?

#82

Post by tstrimple »

gruez wrote: post #80
tstrimple wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That capital doesn't have to be reflected as a percentage of ownership does it? What if they were structured as loans to the company which are paid back with interest separate from dividend payments from ownership? Then people who "invest" financially into the company still get rewarded for it, but they can't just buy up all the profits with an ownership position. I'm not deep into this area, so I don't know what sor…

>That capital doesn't have to be reflected as a percentage of ownership does it? What if they were structured as loans to the company which are paid back with interest separate from dividend payments from ownership? Why would anyone want to invest in a highly risky venture (ie. immature tech companies) with capped upside? It's the same reason why VC companies want equity, not debt obligations in return for their inve…

Presumably because they believe in the model. The upside comes from the cooperative ownership. Clearly this isn't intended to attract VCs, but to encourage financial investments from existing employee owners.

Re: Poll: Should you work for yourself or take a full-time job?

#83

Post by masterof0 »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #71
masterof0 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is not about who do you work for, is about what you own. Running your own show makes you the owner of your work, you could sell your business, pass it down to your family, etc... when you work for somebody else, you are contracting your time, without any ownership, you can't leave your kids your Senior Engineer position at Google, but you could leave them a profitable business. Is like renting vs buying, sometimes ma…

I'd rather my parents leave me a bundle of cash rather than saddling me with their startup.

You can sell your business, the cash you can leave to your kids, is upper bounded by how high you can get into the corporate ladder, which for most people, is not very high. Your family can always sell your business and get that cash. I was also referring to a profitable business, not a startup (is pretty uncommon for people to leave startups to their next in kin). I know people who have someone else running their family business (with a pretty good deal for both parties) and focus on other stuff they care about.

Re: Poll: Should you work for yourself or take a full-time job?

#84

Post by [deleted] »

tstrimple wrote: post #82
gruez wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That capital doesn't have to be reflected as a percentage of ownership does it? What if they were structured as loans to the company which are paid back with interest separate from dividend payments from ownership? Why would anyone want to invest in a highly risky venture (ie. immature tech companies) with capped upside? It's the same reason why VC companies want equity, not debt obligations in return for their inve…

Presumably because they believe in the model. The upside comes from the cooperative ownership. Clearly this isn't intended to attract VCs, but to encourage financial investments from existing employee owners.

[deleted]

Re: Poll: Should you work for yourself or take a full-time job?

#85

Post by gruez »

tstrimple wrote: post #82
gruez wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That capital doesn't have to be reflected as a percentage of ownership does it? What if they were structured as loans to the company which are paid back with interest separate from dividend payments from ownership? Why would anyone want to invest in a highly risky venture (ie. immature tech companies) with capped upside? It's the same reason why VC companies want equity, not debt obligations in return for their inve…

Presumably because they believe in the model. The upside comes from the cooperative ownership. Clearly this isn't intended to attract VCs, but to encourage financial investments from existing employee owners.

Okay, but why would I want to buy $10k worth of junk bonds from the scrappy startup where I work at? A normal person who wants better returns than t-bills or investment grade bonds buys equities, not junk bonds. Sure, that loan might help the startup to succeed in its mission and therefore net me more profit, but it suffers from the free rider problem. Everyone in the business benefits if it succeeds, but if it fails you experience 100% of the losses. Why would anyone want to invest more than the minimum/average amount?

Re: Poll: Should you work for yourself or take a full-time job?

#86

Post by spywaregorilla »

masterof0 wrote: post #83
spywaregorilla wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather my parents leave me a bundle of cash rather than saddling me with their startup.

You can sell your business, the cash you can leave to your kids, is upper bounded by how high you can get into the corporate ladder, which for most people, is not very high. Your family can always sell your business and get that cash. I was also referring to a profitable business, not a startup (is pretty uncommon for people to leave startups to their next in kin). I know people who have someone else running their fa…

You can try to sell your business. Selling a business is non-trivial. Especially if you're not close to it and don't know it. The cash you leave to your kids owning a business is upper bounded by how well your business does. Which, sure, could be better or worse, but most notably has a chance of being worth nothing.

There are for sure many stories where a family business worked out great. But I would prefer an equal value in cash over a randomly chosen small business any day. Even if we subset it to the profitable ones.

Re: Poll: Should you work for yourself or take a full-time job?

#87

Post by UltraViolence »

I'm currently working as a contractor and although the pay is nice, I hate working for clients / employers since you're always subservient to their whims.

My contract was cancelled because they found a cheaper option (a hire) so now I'm working on my own software product. I've always dreamed of starting my own company, becoming rich and doing what I want, working on what I want, whenever I want.

It's no wonder companies are finding it harder and harder to fill in positions. People are just fed up with managers and executives telling them what to do.

Re: Poll: Should you work for yourself or take a full-time job?

#88

Post by UltraViolence »

candiddevmike wrote: post #13

Option 3: form a worker owned co-op and distribute profits between members instead of shareholders and management.

But how would you manage such a company? It's difficult enough having a management team and board of directors running the show. If everyone in the company has a say it may become unworkable.

Interested in responses.

Re: Poll: Should you work for yourself or take a full-time job?

#89

Post by moritonal »

UltraViolence wrote: post #88
candiddevmike wrote: post #13

Option 3: form a worker owned co-op and distribute profits between members instead of shareholders and management.

But how would you manage such a company? It's difficult enough having a management team and board of directors running the show. If everyone in the company has a say it may become unworkable. Interested in responses.

Coops are a thing, at least in the UK. The gist is it works like any other company, everyone simply owns a share of it, and according to some rules some have more tha others. Management is still like a normal company, as is pay and everything else. Its simply dividends are paid to everyone who works there.

Re: Poll: Should you work for yourself or take a full-time job?

#90

Post by jacknews »

UltraViolence wrote: post #87

I'm currently working as a contractor and although the pay is nice, I hate working for clients / employers since you're always subservient to their whims. My contract was cancelled because they found a cheaper option (a hire) so now I'm working on my own software product. I've always dreamed of starting my own company, becoming rich and doing what I want, working on what I want, whenever I want. It's no wonder compan…

But as an employee you're even more 'owned'.
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