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Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

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Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#601

Post by paulryanrogers »

HKH2 wrote: post #590
paulryanrogers wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, is this satire? Surely we should resist our less productive qualities, like sycophancy. Not try to channel it to some "worthy cause".

Maybe you can do that, but can you empower other people to do the same? You might kick one demon out of the house and get seven in return.

Contradictory biblical logic to the rescue. Guess I shouldn't expect anyone to avoiding resisting any demons, don't want to multiply them sevenfold! Might as well channel all those destructive qualities into adoring and obeying those born into wealth and prestige.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#602

Post by mrcsd »

brainfish wrote: post #444
mrcsd wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I agree that there is no written constitution, I said as much above. But there _is_ a constitution. Constitutions do not have to be written, unless you think otherwise?

If there's just one British constitution and everyone agrees on it, then it seems like writing it down would be pretty trivial.

Leaving aside whether there is only one constitution, when has writing any governing document ever been trivial? Literally, humanity has struggled and continues to struggle to write down and effectively communicate even documents of much lesser importance, API documentation or text books for example. I'm sorry but I don't see how this point can be made seriously.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#603

Post by paulryanrogers »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #485
paulryanrogers wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, is this satire? Surely we should resist our less productive qualities, like sycophancy. Not try to channel it to some "worthy cause".

We can’t just snap our fingers and fix the tendencies that make us human, nor do we have the energy to resist every diversion from your perception of what is ideal. I don’t see how your view isn’t personally exhausting. And I don’t see what’s so bad about trying to channel our less productive qualities to better ends than letting them run wild and wishing they didn’t exist.

I'm not proscribing perfection. Rather asking why can't each generation try to do better? Ideally without giving up on gains made elsewhere.

And if we must channel some unavoidable desires then must it be to adore people who won life's lottery? (Or must we heap praise upon someone who appears to have done little to move the needle forward?)

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#604

Post by afarrell »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #603
DiggyJohnson wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can’t just snap our fingers and fix the tendencies that make us human, nor do we have the energy to resist every diversion from your perception of what is ideal. I don’t see how your view isn’t personally exhausting. And I don’t see what’s so bad about trying to channel our less productive qualities to better ends than letting them run wild and wishing they didn’t exist.

I'm not proscribing perfection. Rather asking why can't each generation try to do better? Ideally without giving up on gains made elsewhere. And if we must channel some unavoidable desires then must it be to adore people who won life's lottery? (Or must we heap praise upon someone who appears to have done little to move the needle forward?)

If I try to see the millennial generation as a single decision-maker, I’d say it looks an awful lot like someone with multiple personalities.

Solving this problem requires solving coordination problems. Solving coordination problems requires creating a sense of community where people are motivated to act beyond their self interest. Collective motivation at that level requires symbolism and ceremony tapping into the deepest familial affections of the human heart.

The royal family will beat you at that game. You might choose to play a different one.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#605

Post by nautilius »

jdkee wrote: post #426
nautilius wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans too. https://www.npr.org/2022/09/06/1121322520/a-black-protester-...

FTA: "The jury acquitted Martin of inciting a riot and reached no verdict on whether she threatened officers' lives. Her legal team was "elated" when jurors found her guilty only of breaching the peace, punishable by no more than a $500 fine and 30 days in jail, investigator Tony Kennedy recalled. State law defines breachers of the peace as any disturbers, "dangerous and disorderly persons" or people who utter "menac…

In summary: four years in prison for talking to a cop.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#606

Post by barrysteve »

austinjp wrote: post #327

The UK media (not just the BBC) continue to profess "amazement" at the speed and efficiency of the transitioning from a dead monarch to a living one. There's been much speaking in awed tones at the pace of the various proclamations, committee meetings, document signings, etc, as if this pace tells us why we should be impressed. Personally I've found it borderline sickening. If there was a curtain that could have slip…

I lived in the UK for half a decade, and found there's always something going on. Roads are being blocked off for parades, bicycle events, football crowds, public transport strikes, identical swathes of finance bros filling out areas after work, and just general throngs of people.

You get used to falling in line with whatever going on, cause you're not getting to the traffic light before the corner-shop, if you fight it.

It's not "deep state" in the UK, it's the peak of the class system (or anglican faith). People aspire to go up these ranks, and having the royal family guide it all, directly or as a counterbalance.

It's no less or more weird than people stopping to watch the new Pope get elected or George Clooney and Julia Roberts try and go for a quite coffee on some sleepy sunday morning, just to be surrounded by people who should have better things to do than gawp at hollywood stars.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#607

Post by the_only_law »

ralfd wrote: post #477
austinjp wrote: post #327

The UK media (not just the BBC) continue to profess "amazement" at the speed and efficiency of the transitioning from a dead monarch to a living one. There's been much speaking in awed tones at the pace of the various proclamations, committee meetings, document signings, etc, as if this pace tells us why we should be impressed. Personally I've found it borderline sickening. If there was a curtain that could have slip…

> people wearing ritualistic outfits have marched into public spaces in several cities, and declared that a member of the elite has been replaced, the continuum is unbroken. You speak like that hundred years long continuum is not a major accomplishment in state craft. This is remarkable stability and resistance against a popular Tribune of the plebs. Remember that the last US President was asked “Will you really real…

> his is remarkable stability and resistance against a popular Tribune of the plebs

Gotta keep those plebs in their place right.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#608

Post by [deleted] »

cma wrote: post #330
quadrifoliate wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hmmmm... /s? Okay, fair point – I missed the fact that SA is also currently a somewhat key US ally. But you know what I mean, hopefully. The UK has typically been close enough socially and politically that the term "Special Relationship" has its own Wikipedia page [1]. ---------------------------------------- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Relationship

Saudi royalty killed a US journalist, violating much more clear-cut free speech principles than this (still bad) state-enforced decorum stuff.

[deleted]

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#609

Post by paulryanrogers »

afarrell wrote: post #604
paulryanrogers wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not proscribing perfection. Rather asking why can't each generation try to do better? Ideally without giving up on gains made elsewhere. And if we must channel some unavoidable desires then must it be to adore people who won life's lottery? (Or must we heap praise upon someone who appears to have done little to move the needle forward?)

If I try to see the millennial generation as a single decision-maker, I’d say it looks an awful lot like someone with multiple personalities. Solving this problem requires solving coordination problems. Solving coordination problems requires creating a sense of community where people are motivated to act beyond their self interest. Collective motivation at that level requires symbolism and ceremony tapping into the d…

> Collective motivation at that level requires symbolism and ceremony tapping into the deepest familial affections of the human heart.

Citation needed.

> The royal family will beat you at that game. You might choose to play a different one.

Monarchs are born into unearned power, wealth, and privilege. They are the last people I'd consider successful at coordinating humanity for the better. Great Britain's own history is drenched in enough innocent blood. Whatever gains originated there appear largely attributable to luck and or non-royal endeavors.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#610

Post by brutusborn »

morelisp wrote: post #548
brutusborn wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that the Monarchy provides a stability mechanism, which is generally why its supporters like it. However I could be misinterpreting the comment.

Consistently this Schroedinger's Monarchy defense. "The queen has no real power." OK, then why have her? "Monarchy provides stability in case of... something." Ah, so she does have power! The real pageantry/cosplay is how we're supposed to pretend a hereditary leader, ceremonial or otherwise but also given that we're discussing people being arrested definitely actually otherwise , isn't totally fucked up.

The UK Monarch has real power, but not absolute power.

From wikipedia: "The royal prerogative includes the powers to appoint and dismiss ministers, regulate the civil service, issue passports, declare war, make peace, direct the actions of the military, and negotiate and ratify treaties, alliances, and international agreements."

This isn't as black and white as you are proposing, there is nuance.

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