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Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

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Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#551

Post by hhjinks »

tablespoon wrote: post #467
haltingproblem wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no constitution. How can it be a constitutional monarchy? Before anyone points out that it is an unwritten constitution, please exchange my invisible benjies for some gold.

> There is no constitution. How can it be a constitutional monarchy? Before anyone points out that it is an unwritten constitution, please exchange my invisible benjies for some gold. You misunderstand what a constitution is. It's not a document, which is an inanimate thing that cannot actually do anything. Rather, it's a set of customs and principles that are respected and followed. The latter is what actually matte…

What actually matters is that those breaking the constitution, be it written or not, can be held criminally liable. Can you be held criminally liable for breaking "a set of customs and principles" in the UK?

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#552

Post by WickyNilliams »

robomartin wrote: post #390
austinjp wrote: post #327

The UK media (not just the BBC) continue to profess "amazement" at the speed and efficiency of the transitioning from a dead monarch to a living one. There's been much speaking in awed tones at the pace of the various proclamations, committee meetings, document signings, etc, as if this pace tells us why we should be impressed. Personally I've found it borderline sickening. If there was a curtain that could have slip…

One thing I will never understand about people who pretty much hate where they live for one reason or another: Why don't they leave? Seriously. I am not taking sides here. I have visited the UK as a tourist and on business a zillion times over the last four decades. And yet, I am not qualified to voice opinion as to the realities of living there. From the outside, as someone visiting from the US, for lack of a better…

Dissatisfaction is the engine of change!

I suspect every right and freedom each of us enjoy in our respective countries is the result of people unhappy with their country seeking to better it. In the UK we even had a civil war over the monarchy centuries ago! Why didn't Cromwell just leave??

Also it completely ignores that people have family, dependents, friends, history that they may not wish to abandon.

For some additional context, in the UK, "why don't you leave" is a particularly toxic argument often directed exclusively at ethnic minorities - including those who were born here, or are eg third generation Brits. You'll typically find it paired with calls to "go back where you came from".

You have a overly-romanticised vision of the UK based on a few visits, which I'm afraid doesn't quite match the reality.

So perhaps dial it in?

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#553

Post by gambiting »

wutbrodo wrote: post #165
gambiting wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like complaining that you will get arrested for having sex in the middle of the street, but sex in a film is somehow fine(surely it's because movie producers have money and are in cahoots with the government, and not for any other, more logical reason, like the fact that art forms, no matter how poor in taste, are protected by society).

In what legal sense is the YouTuber with the pug less protected by the "art form" argument than the movie production? Did the latter get a permit for Nazi jokes? (Sincere question, maybe they did: UK speech norms and laws are incredibly alien to me)

In terms of legal sense, since you asked about that specifically - all films shown in the UK(in theatres or released on home media, or for streaming/download) have to be approved by the British Film Commission. If something is approved for release, anyone would have an extremely hard time getting the author arrested for the content - they can still be sued for a number of different reasons, but making a nazi salute in a film with nazis would be allowed for artistic purposes.

A random guy making a nazi salute for a joke and uploading it on youtube is more like documentary evidence of a crime, not an art form. There is a reason promoting nazi salutes is a crime in most of Europe, and it really doesn't matter he did it as a joke - it's simply not a laughing matter. Yes to American ears it might sound weird - that there is a topic that cannot even be joked about or you risk getting arrested. I don't really have a reply for that, other than the fact that it feels right to me, given the attrocities comitted by Nazis against our people - I think doing a nazi salute publicly(and I count uploading videos on youtube as "public"), even as a joke, is not acceptable at all.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#554

Post by austinjp »

chrisseaton wrote: post #544
illiac786 wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precedence is written down, I find it acceptable. It’s a good way to make sure the “constitution” evolves. Multiple persons above refer to “constitution” as being a set of “beliefs”, “values” and “traditions”, I was pointing out that this is not a good solution in my view.

Precedence is what happened before. The UK constitution is based on precedence.

In what way? Precedence of what?

"What happened before" in the UK has for thousands of years favoured (to put it mildly) the incumbent powers-that-be.

Seems like a convenient way to perpetuate inequality.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#555

Post by austinjp »

alphaddx wrote: post #350
austinjp wrote: post #327

The UK media (not just the BBC) continue to profess "amazement" at the speed and efficiency of the transitioning from a dead monarch to a living one. There's been much speaking in awed tones at the pace of the various proclamations, committee meetings, document signings, etc, as if this pace tells us why we should be impressed. Personally I've found it borderline sickening. If there was a curtain that could have slip…

I'm genuinely interested to know what you think should happen after a monarch passes. This has been the process for over 1000 years and while we have a constitutional monarchy this is what happens. I'm actually not in favour of a monarchy myself but I don't get how people would be surprised at what's currently happening.

Maybe a public conversation about extreme privilege which is backed by the military, the police, the media, and politicians of all stripes. Throw in a discussion about who owns "public" spaces and the laws governing how many people can gather there to do what.

For starters :)

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#556

Post by austinjp »

shswkna wrote: post #452
capitalsigma wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that we should also strip the Kardashians of their legal authority over the nation as a whole

You have a point. OP probably doesn’t think twice about letting pop culture exert its authority but balks at a culture that seems from another age. A little more perspective is needed here.

If OP is me, then errrrm... no :)

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#557

Post by WickyNilliams »

jlokier wrote: post #271
dijit wrote: post #9

They aren’t being arrested for being anti-monarchy though. They are being arrested for being rude about it. Was the fella on radio 4 who stated to the entire nation that ‘King Charles and his family should be put in a council house and that the Monarchy should be abolished’ arrested? No. If you are going to attend a funeral, any funeral, be it the Queen’s or anyone else’s and hurl abuse or hold up signs with obscenit…

> Like the fella who stated that ‘we didn’t vote for him’ In fairness, we didn't vote for the Prime Minister either. Where was this fella when we needed him in parliament? I think UK democracy has a much bigger democratic problem than whether there is a symbolic monarch. Unlike the monarch, the Prime Minister we didn't vote for is a political activist with serious power and a nasty agenda - including the agenda to re…

> Where was this fella when we needed him in parliament?

There's no obligation to protest everything you disagree with, why would you suggest there is? Furthermore, how do you know they _didnt_ protest the PM? The PM may not have been voted for, but a crucial difference is, unlike the monarchy, the position of PM is not handed down by hereditary lineage.

> including the agenda to reduce freedom to protest and other basic rights of the people.

Don't you think perhaps these two events are related? You chastise someone for protesting, whilst bemoaning the right for protest being eroded. A strange contradiction.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#558

Post by chrisseaton »

austinjp wrote: post #554
chrisseaton wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precedence is what happened before. The UK constitution is based on precedence.

In what way? Precedence of what? "What happened before" in the UK has for thousands of years favoured (to put it mildly) the incumbent powers-that-be. Seems like a convenient way to perpetuate inequality.

> In what way? Precedence of what?

I don’t get what you’re finding confusing. For example the Accession ceremony we just had - why was it like that? Because that’s how it happened last time - that’s what precedence is.

Why does writing it down make it more equal?

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#559

Post by sofixa »

MagnumOpus wrote: post #534
nly wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 20 odd billion £ really a tremendous amount of assets when the government can magic up 150 billion on a whim to cap energy bills? It's peanuts in the scheme of things. The royal family aren't even that rich amongst the billion class in the US.

> 20 odd billion £ really a tremendous amount of assets yes > government can magic up 150 billion that is also a tremendous amount which the next British generations will labour decades to pay off, just so today's pensioners can heat their homes to the 25C they are used to, and still have their ski outings in Zermatt.

> that is also a tremendous amount which the next British generations will labour decades to pay off, just so today's pensioners can heat their homes to the 25C they are used to, and still have their ski outings in Zermatt.

It is a tremendous amount indeed, but i don't know why you think it's only pensioners and skiers who would benefit from not having to choose between food and energy.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#560

Post by Biganon »

dqh wrote: post #27
closewith wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They aren’t being arrested for being anti-monarchy though. > They are being arrested for being rude about it. Got it. Arrested for poor taste. Hard to see the justification for that in a democracy?

Do you really think you should have the right to disrupt the funeral of someone you don’t like?

It's not "someone you don't like". It's a queen. A public figure. Her funeral is a symbol, a public moment, of course dissent should be allowed at this exact moment. They're sending a public message, why is it forbidden to send a dissenting voice? This is propaganda without the right to retort with counter-propaganda.
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