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Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

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Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#511

Post by illiac786 »

Bancakes wrote: post #504
illiac786 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it’s not written down, anyone can interpret it any way he likes and debate this for the next centuries. To avoid this kind of problem, it is a good idea to have representatives of the people write it down. And yes, it will never be perfect, and it will get outdated over time, etc. etc. Still better than millions of different mental interpretations. Also does not change the fact that the people can request a change…

Oh like USA's endless amendment debates and "common sense X" acts?

yep, still better. “less worse” might be a better term here though.

The US has two issues as far as I can tell: one, (small) constitution amendment should be a normal, regular process, but because it has not been done, now it has become some sort of sacrilege to some, at the very least a “very big deal” to most. Second, the political landscape is so polarized, one aisle will say “no” before the other aisle has uttered the first word. You can’t legislate anything in such a situation.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#512

Post by netsharc »

esharte wrote: post #385

The issue is the "Mourning period" is being used as cover to crown a new monarch with no opposition. People are being told "not now", and how disrespectful they are. This is by design. Meanwhile it's somehow not disrespectful to replace the Queen within hours.

Your "meanwhile..." doesn't make sense, why is it disrespectful, technically it's the kingdom's/the monarchy's rules, and this family is the monarchy. And the replacement happened not within hours, but Charles became king at the instant Elizabeth died, that's why the sentence is "The Queen is dead, long live the King!".

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#513

Post by HyperSane »

Ekaros wrote: post #500
HyperSane wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is sickening when the transition is from one unelected, parasitic, hereditary monarch to her child.

Ah, so we should do away with inheritance in general.

Yes, we should do away with all hereditary monarchies. That is a very good idea.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#514

Post by jon_adler »

robomartin wrote: post #390
austinjp wrote: post #327

The UK media (not just the BBC) continue to profess "amazement" at the speed and efficiency of the transitioning from a dead monarch to a living one. There's been much speaking in awed tones at the pace of the various proclamations, committee meetings, document signings, etc, as if this pace tells us why we should be impressed. Personally I've found it borderline sickening. If there was a curtain that could have slip…

One thing I will never understand about people who pretty much hate where they live for one reason or another: Why don't they leave? Seriously. I am not taking sides here. I have visited the UK as a tourist and on business a zillion times over the last four decades. And yet, I am not qualified to voice opinion as to the realities of living there. From the outside, as someone visiting from the US, for lack of a better…

A couple of counterpoints. I think you underestimate how difficult it can be to emigrate to another country without plenty of money (although it is relatively for EU citizens, rights the British have recently given up). Secondly, why should they leave rather than fight hard for change? The love it or leave it argument is so lazy.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#515

Post by nly »

noncoml wrote: post #177

“Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government” And no, I don’t mean it as a joke If Britain wants to survive the next 100 years, they need to make some brave decisions. Dissolve monarchy and the class system, get back into EU, and hope Scotland will not declare independence. Also, USA, wtf, why are you flying the flag at half staff? Did you forget what you fought about in 17…

Get some perspective. It's _just_ a flag... a gesture of respect.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#516

Post by HyperSane »

geenew wrote: post #377

The monarchy has only fared well if it changes with the times, which it has, gradually giving more power to parliament over the centuries. We have gone from a system of divine right to a harmless institution that provides an apolitical centre. In a practical sense, the institution today is unrecognizable from the institution 1,000 years ago. And there is no reason to think it will not continue to change, gradually, a…

" If we are, then we should have a good reason to do so."

Its mere existence is sufficient reason to end it. The very concept of Kings and Queens is anathema to democracy.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#517

Post by illiac786 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #506
illiac786 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it’s not written down, anyone can interpret it any way he likes and debate this for the next centuries. To avoid this kind of problem, it is a good idea to have representatives of the people write it down. And yes, it will never be perfect, and it will get outdated over time, etc. etc. Still better than millions of different mental interpretations. Also does not change the fact that the people can request a change…

> If it’s not written down, anyone can interpret it any way he likes and debate this for the next centuries. What does ‘right to bear arms’ precisely means? Nobody knows. > Still better than millions of different mental interpretations. There are millions of different mental interpretations of the US written constitution. Can you give some examples of parts of the UK constitution that are debated as much?

>Can you give some examples of parts of the UK constitution that are debated as much?

If you don’t write it down, no debate, no consensus, everyone believes what suits his life style best.

I am not saying writing it down is foolproof. “Write down a piece of document and don’t touch it for 200 years” is definitely not a good idea, it should be updated regularly.

But if given the choice today of writing down or continue verbally, I wouldn’t definitely attempt to write it down, including a clear process for the document to be regularly edited and updated.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#518

Post by Bancakes »

illiac786 wrote: post #511
Bancakes wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh like USA's endless amendment debates and "common sense X" acts?

yep, still better. “less worse” might be a better term here though. The US has two issues as far as I can tell: one, (small) constitution amendment should be a normal, regular process, but because it has not been done, now it has become some sort of sacrilege to some, at the very least a “very big deal” to most. Second, the political landscape is so polarized, one aisle will say “no” before the other aisle has uttere…

Well that is within the context of young, impressionable, geopolitically and economically sheltered people expressing emotional views. So it's good that we don't enact these amendments on a whim

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#519

Post by nly »

geenew wrote: post #377

The monarchy has only fared well if it changes with the times, which it has, gradually giving more power to parliament over the centuries. We have gone from a system of divine right to a harmless institution that provides an apolitical centre. In a practical sense, the institution today is unrecognizable from the institution 1,000 years ago. And there is no reason to think it will not continue to change, gradually, a…

I mean I think it's clear Harry and Meghan saw the writing on the wall a number of years years ago and decided to go and establish a backup income, separate from Royal ties, in California.

Signing lucrative Netflix contracts, selling "Sussex" branded trinkets, going on Oprah, and bringing out autobiographies (no doubt containing scandal) has no doubt already made them a 7 figure sum.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#520

Post by nly »

bombcar wrote: post #346
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Functionally zero. In theory, the monarch has power, but it is never exerted, because they know that if it was exerted a) it would be ignored, and b) they’d immediately be overthrown. They act as a head of state in the same way that e.g: Germany has a President. Noble ranks like Duke and Baron are also completely irrelevant to governance. Lords _are_ relevant, on the other hand. They form the House of Lords, which pl…

It is not entirely clear they’d be immediately overthrown - in the right situation it could spark a civil war.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing?
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