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Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

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Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#31

Post by bri3d »

londons_explore wrote: post #22
waitwhatwhoa wrote: post #10

This was in 2021; it appears the fire was extinguished by July 11 [1], investigated by Vice later that year [2], and seems to still be being cleaned up by US EPA [3]. 1. https://www.ehs.com/2021/07/morris-lithium-battery-fire-high... 2. https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7vj73/everyone-thought-the-... 3. https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-resumes-cleanup-hazardo...

What chemicals are in lithium batteries that are toxic? I was under the impression that while lithium batteries were dangerous due to explosion/flame risk, the actual ingredients weren't particularly toxic?

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-09784-z

Many batteries have LiPF6 electrolytes, so HF is the big one when they combust.

And of course the most famous and common battery chemistry is still LiCo - so you've got Lithium salts and Cobalt, which you don't love to see get in ground water.

They're not too bad when they don't burn, but once they've burned, all bets are off - there are a lot of nasty byproducts.

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#32

Post by eru »

hackernewds wrote: post #25
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #19

Lithium battery fire cannot be 'put out'- in a normal sense. A fuel tank of petrol needs oxygen to burn, and when you spray foam on it your cut off the oxygen and the fire stops. A battery already contains energy, all the chemicals required for the reaction are already present, and once the energy release starts, sealing it from the environment does not stop the process. Ebike and drone batteries are large enough to…

Firefighters struggle lifting 24.5 lbs?

Firefighters aren't 'most people'.

I'd guess that most people can lift 12kg. But lifting and wielding ain't the same.

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#33

Post by ClumsyPilot »

hackernewds wrote: post #25
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #19

Lithium battery fire cannot be 'put out'- in a normal sense. A fuel tank of petrol needs oxygen to burn, and when you spray foam on it your cut off the oxygen and the fire stops. A battery already contains energy, all the chemicals required for the reaction are already present, and once the energy release starts, sealing it from the environment does not stop the process. Ebike and drone batteries are large enough to…

Firefighters struggle lifting 24.5 lbs?

I mean average housewife and grandpa.

Also you are not benchpressing in optimal position, you need to hold it at an awkward angle.

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#34

Post by AussieWog93 »

_wldu wrote: post #9

Off topic... What's the best way to easily recycle these batteries? I normally disassemble my old phones and securely dispose of the chips (for my privacy), but the batteries are glued in with a strong adhesive. Just trying to remove them can start a fire. I think most people just throw the old phones in the trash, but I don't like to do that. It's bad for the environment and potentially dangerous to trash workers. I…

Factory reset them then sell them on Facebook or local classifieds.

People will pay good coin for a used phone in good nick. Or a used anything, really. I personally just paid around $50 USD for an iPad Mini 2, and during the pandemic I dropped around $150 USD on a 2015 MacBook with a broken screen.

Some of the stuff people put into hard rubbish blows my mind.

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#36

Post by code_duck »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #19

Lithium battery fire cannot be 'put out'- in a normal sense. A fuel tank of petrol needs oxygen to burn, and when you spray foam on it your cut off the oxygen and the fire stops. A battery already contains energy, all the chemicals required for the reaction are already present, and once the energy release starts, sealing it from the environment does not stop the process. Ebike and drone batteries are large enough to…

Most job applications for positions with any sort of physical aspect (grocery, hardware stores, maintenance) ask whether the applicant can lift 50 lbs (23 kg) over their head.

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#38

Post by elihu »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #19

Lithium battery fire cannot be 'put out'- in a normal sense. A fuel tank of petrol needs oxygen to burn, and when you spray foam on it your cut off the oxygen and the fire stops. A battery already contains energy, all the chemicals required for the reaction are already present, and once the energy release starts, sealing it from the environment does not stop the process. Ebike and drone batteries are large enough to…

I think the standard procedure in EV car fires is to just dump water on it to conduct the heat away as fast as possible, and to keep dumping water on it until the batteries can no longer self-ignite -- which can take awhile.

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#39

Post by sbaiddn »

gerdesj wrote: post #24

Why on earth do you move 28 tonnes of cement from southern England to the US to put out a fire! I am of course joking - badly. Portland is in Dorset (UK) and is where the eponymous stuff was first extracted along with stone. This is a novel way to put out fires but a logical one if the temperatures are right. Conc can burn if it's too hot - and it sets/cures with an exothermic reaction. That's why you have to pour it…

I thought that was funny. Nerdy, but funny.

I also am puzzles by the viability of using exothermic cement to smother a rxn

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#40

Post by themitigating »

_wldu wrote: post #9

Off topic... What's the best way to easily recycle these batteries? I normally disassemble my old phones and securely dispose of the chips (for my privacy), but the batteries are glued in with a strong adhesive. Just trying to remove them can start a fire. I think most people just throw the old phones in the trash, but I don't like to do that. It's bad for the environment and potentially dangerous to trash workers. I…

Even if the facilities don't exist we can store them in remote areas right. Maybe put each in a fireproof bag.

I'm not an expert but isn't one huge advantage of batteries is they are mostly solid so unlike c02 which disperses in the air we can store them in one place that doesn't cause harm.

For EV batteries couldn't we just put them in a fire proof, water proof bag or container until the battery is ready for processing

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