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Online art communities begin banning AI-generated images

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Re: Online art communities begin banning AI-generated images

#241

Post by Bakary »

zasdffaa wrote: post #207
sixstringtheory wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Truth" and "understanding" are both things that have changed throughout human history, they are not fixed. Art can be something that changes the way you understand the world, which would change your idea of what the truth is about reality. I just rewatched Goodfellas the other day. No doubt that film brought a deeper understanding for many many people about mafia philosophy, history and events, and inspired more res…

FYI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth > "Truth is the property of being in accord with fact or reality" Your post is just a typical arts-based response. Not rigorous, sloppy, with "No doubt", "might suggest", "my impression is", "interpersonal challenges". It's just a sloppy mess that can't be engaged with, quite deliberately. Edit, if I sound frustrated I am. I'm trying to get a better handle on 'art' so I can und…

The problem is that it can take a long time to explain certain feelings or ideas you get from art (of any form), and even the attempt is a bit painful or downright impossible.

A very low-level example would be a Jackson Pollock or Mondrian painting. It's just a bunch of... stuff but it's extremely visually pleasing compared to just random blotches. There are theories as to why that might be[0] but overall, it would be nigh impossible to tell you why I personally find these pieces compelling because the reason is almost unconscious and tactile.

A medium level example would be a song that inspires a certain narrative in your mind. For instance, that intro song by the XX gives me all sorts of conflicting emotions that could be summarized as 'wanting to do more with my life', but the summary doesn't do it justice at all.

A higher-level example would be a piece of literature read at the right time in your life. It's a show-don't-tell type of exercise where the author exposes ideas to you about life or the world without spelling them out explicitly. Sometimes the ideas don't have much to do with the surface details of the narrative. In many ways, it is similar to experiences you actually lived yourself and that imparted ideas or lessons to you.

If you are not in the same headspace, this will seem like a con or pretentious nonsense. But what is really going on is that trying to explain it is often like trying to explain a joke or a subtle social interaction to someone who didn't get it.

My friend once tried to explain to me the beauty of the Carmack fast invert square root, and I didn't really get it because I lacked certain foundational ideas. But there was no doubt in my mind that he was seeing artistic worth in that moment, and that despite me being unable to understand it it was certainly not 'gloop'.

Trying to come at it with the combative Wikipedia-article-on-fallacies/STEM vs. art mindset is self-defeating, like interpreting the scientific method as a tool for prescriptive claims.

[0] https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/01/why-frac...

Re: Online art communities begin banning AI-generated images

#242

Post by batperson »

matkoniecz wrote: post #203
throw101010 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why do they pretend to ban a specific art type? I could have generated variations of a human created digital piece in less time than these AI (currently) since the creation of this platform but they didn't seem to feel threatened by this up until now... so there is clearly an other problem.

> I could have generated variations of a human created digital piece in less time than these AI Seems dubious that you could achieve over 2000 upload each day, without stopping.

I generated over 30k, maybe 40k images since stable diffusion 1.4 model went public 2 weeks ago. Most of it is just endless exploring and generating a lot of nonsense but I got some prompts that generate consistently good results. 2000 decent quality images per day would be quite easy, even with my humble rtx 2070s GPU.

Re: Online art communities begin banning AI-generated images

#243

Post by pavel_lishin »

Axauv wrote: post #96
pavel_lishin wrote: post #82

Aside from the debates about "artistic merit" and the ethics of using AI trained on existing artists' work, one of the key things is that this new technology allows anyone to flood a place with images. There are some scifi-themed subreddits that I visit that allow posting art, and at this point it feels like 50% of all submissions are Midjourney/Dall-E generated art. Fine, it looks ok, but there's such a low barrier…

This could be solved on basically all arti communities by simply putting in a post limit per day. Say an artist can only upload 5 images per day or something, why would someone need to upload more than that?

But now everyone's an artist.

Re: Online art communities begin banning AI-generated images

#245

Post by optimalsolver »

quitit wrote: post #221
bayindirh wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, there's a major misconception about training of humans and AI. Image generating AIs are trained with massive amounts of images and text, however image generating humans train with much broader spectrum of experience. Also, feeding a model tons of images created by humans (directly or by proxy) and claiming that AI is generating something completely new is a bit naive IMHO. Humans mix a much more broader and…

Further to your point, comparing humans to AI is not just misunderstanding AI, but also looks past how humans create and choose the styles which this AI is now reproducing through a statical approach. Without the human guidance the AI would be bland, AI is limited to the walls of whatever it has been exposed to - humans are not. The AI emulates. Humans create. - The significance here is not trivial.

>AI is limited to the walls of whatever it has been exposed to - humans are not

So you can imagine new colors?

Re: Online art communities begin banning AI-generated images

#246

Post by sixstringtheory »

zasdffaa wrote: post #207
sixstringtheory wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Truth" and "understanding" are both things that have changed throughout human history, they are not fixed. Art can be something that changes the way you understand the world, which would change your idea of what the truth is about reality. I just rewatched Goodfellas the other day. No doubt that film brought a deeper understanding for many many people about mafia philosophy, history and events, and inspired more res…

FYI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth > "Truth is the property of being in accord with fact or reality" Your post is just a typical arts-based response. Not rigorous, sloppy, with "No doubt", "might suggest", "my impression is", "interpersonal challenges". It's just a sloppy mess that can't be engaged with, quite deliberately. Edit, if I sound frustrated I am. I'm trying to get a better handle on 'art' so I can und…

> "Truth is the property of being in accord with fact or reality"

I asked what is truth to you, and you regurgitate something from Wikipedia with no synthesis of your own. OK, now why don't you copy and paste the definitions for "fact" and "reality", and make sure they don't contain any synonyms for "true" or "real". We can keep iterating from there until one of us passes out from sheer boredom.

> can't be engaged with

Nonsense. You could, for instance, engage in showing me just how non-rigorous my statements are. You can start by proving that every single person who has ever seen Goodfellas came away from it with zero delta in their understanding of the Mafia or inspiration to learn about it. Including me. And then prove to me whether their understanding was "true" or not.

And then prove to me that I didn't think of new ways to deal with the problems I had between myself and some friends as I was reading Proust. And/or that I would've thought of those things if I never read Proust.

And then prove to me that science fiction has never inspired any scientist or mathematician in the history of science fiction.

And that there has never been a person that looked at Dali's melting clocks and wondered if time is more complicated than what they currently thought.

Re: Online art communities begin banning AI-generated images

#247

Post by paranoidrobot »

lifthrasiir wrote: post #236
paranoidrobot wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might not be storing all of the images, but it's clearly storing copies of some of the source images. A few weeks before OpenAI made DALL-E 2 open, I went through a series of prompts using well known artists as a basis. Vermeer was one of them. It generated some pretty amazing works that were 'inspired' but not direct copies of Vermeer's works. I started feeding the same prompts into StableDiffiusion (the HuggingF…

Do you have the exact prompt that essentially generated Vemeer's works? Omitted in the parent, but I also noted that while it is hard to reconcile the idea of human-directed transformative use with ML models, it might be actually easier to verify the models' plagarism---which is not equivalent to copyright infringement but can be a problem by its own---once you have a right prompt as they are decidable.

"the girl with a pearl earring by Johannes Vermeer" and variations on that, will spit out the named painting.

Two examples: https://imgur.com/a/KAxmZCl

The original: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girl_with_a_Pearl_Earring#/med...

It's reproducing the folds in the headband, riffles in the clothing, etc. It's not just a "similar" reproduced image, it's clearly some minor variation on the original.

Re: Online art communities begin banning AI-generated images

#248

Post by mistrial9 »

halr9000 wrote: post #239
mistrial9 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sign makers were put out of business en masse at a certain point, and there were quite a few, and it is high-skill, high-commitment work. Some kinds of print arts related to magazines for example, were next. There is a chapter in the Stanford AI Index (2021) that opens with "The rise of AI will inevitable raise questions of how much these technologies will impact business, labor and the economy in general .. " there…

> In the 1930s America there was mass unemployment Sure, but these are temporary disruptions. Now it's true that the pace of change feels immensely faster than ever before, and I believe that's an observable fact. But we adapt. The incentives to do so are, sometimes, life or death. When faced with that kind of situation, some small % will sink into depression, perhaps never to climb out. I'm sure that some online mag…

I had to think twice about this reply .. I believe that from a psychological, character development point of view, what you say is reasonable.. adjust to change and apply new skills in new ways.

However, there are different "lenses" through which one might examine large topics, and one lense might be that of personal challenge, adjustment and endeavor; but another lense is closer to The Economist Magazine, where factual snippets of market behavior, participants and results are traded every day, every week, every year. Any college educated person ought to be able to say, there have been real, serious and long-standing economic changes where thousands and millions of capable, good-enough people, had serious, years-long hard times up to and including starvation, war, and abundant death. Those without personal experience of that, or a close relative or similar imprinting, may not really consider this real. I had to learn it from books myself based on where I grew up. Others reading these words, know it very well.

Hand-craft preservation is a thing, I have heard.. so there is certainly a broad spectrum between "no more blacksmiths downtown" to "I send my print jobs via phone for pickup near the metro at an automated kiosk". It is said that nobody has a right to a job. However, The Economist Magazine exists for a reason, and things are not normal where I live.. Welcome to the New Not-Normal, as Jerry Brown said..

Re: Online art communities begin banning AI-generated images

#249

Post by yieldcrv »

gdubs wrote: post #29

I have a degree in Studio Arts in addition to being a software developer (and recently I've started making a lot of creative work with AI). Back when I was in school, there was already plenty of debate about 'what is "Art"'? It's always been hotly contested. Most of my teachers felt that 'technique' was not Art. Others were more purists – life painters, etc – and felt that, no, technique is art. Duchamp poked the art…

aside from showcasing, you have to factor in how the bottom is now out from MANY freelance artists who were already fairly lucky to have clients paying them $5/pop

for example, in the last two weeks, promotional flyers for parties in my area have been all AI generated, because Stable Diffusion is free and DALL-E 2 completely fumbled with their limited access and data credit system

its kind of game-over for the promo art trade, the transactions that were happening, are not happening

Re: Online art communities begin banning AI-generated images

#250

Post by xani_ »

Animats wrote: post #127
lifthrasiir wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many clearly think it's a photocopier. As if StableDiffusion is hiding copies of all these works inside. In my latest series of tweets [1] I tried to argue that this is not the case in a less technical way, not sure if I was successful though. For anyone not fluent in Korean, my argument was as follows: Stable Diffusion was trained with a data set composed of about 2.32 billion text-image pairs. The model itself by…

Another discovery that something thought to be uniquely human really isn't that hard.

That's like saying "well, making knives is easy" while ignoring everything that is needed to make materials then shaping them into final form.

It's only "easy" because bunch of people over years perfected every step of the process.

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