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Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

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Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#261

Post by ziftface »

wutbrodo wrote: post #147
deskamess wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes it weird? Why is it barely functioning?

I think you're just seeing an example of the raging inferiority complex that many members of the rest of the West exhibit towards the US. There's a noticeable cultural difference along certain axes, with both significant downsides and significant upsides for both sides of the cultural divide. But there are many out there who aren't cognitively capable of processing the breathtaking nuance of global cultural differenc…

Okay but our democracy is actually barely functional. It's not relevant to the above conversation but it is a true statement.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#262

Post by egeek »

pessimizer wrote: post #194
somewhereoutth wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or indeed burning a model of the Grenfell Tower at a bonfire party https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/06/grenfell-bon...

Quoted post unavailable.

As per a sibling reply, are you referring to Guy Fawkes night? We don't really observe that at all in Northern Ireland, it's an English thing.

It's also neither a holiday in Northern Ireland[0] nor England [1]

[0] https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/bank-holidays

[1] https://www.gov.uk/bank-holidays

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#263

Post by sfvegandude »

dijit wrote: post #9

They aren’t being arrested for being anti-monarchy though. They are being arrested for being rude about it. Was the fella on radio 4 who stated to the entire nation that ‘King Charles and his family should be put in a council house and that the Monarchy should be abolished’ arrested? No. If you are going to attend a funeral, any funeral, be it the Queen’s or anyone else’s and hurl abuse or hold up signs with obscenit…

>If you are going to attend a funeral […] and hour abuse or hold up signs with obscenities, you will be arrested.

It’s a shame that the UK doesn’t have robust protections for free speech. In the US, you certainly will not be arrested for this. We have Supreme Court precedent preventing it.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#264

Post by brigandish »

wutbrodo wrote: post #131
mc32 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is a case in the UK. They have different laws and observe different decorum. Even in the US I would think protesting a funeral to be in extremely poor taste, no matter the target. What’s that Latin phrase about the recently dead?

The article describes an activist who specifically took pains to avoid any disparagement of the outgoing Queen, limiting his protest to the incoming coronation. If that falls under the rule you're describing, doesn't that render it impossible to protest a ceremony, as long as it happens after a funeral? It seems you're defining away the protest of hereditary succession as unacceptably rude?

> limiting his protest to the incoming coronation.

The coronation is months away, he was protesting the ascension at the Queen's funeral procession. That does not avoid disparagement of the Queen.

I certainly don't think he should be arrested but he's clearly boneheaded. He'll have plenty of time to protest both the ascension and the coronation, of someone who is a much softer target that the Queen, especially considering she's just died.

PR own goal if ever there was one. Even Extinction Rebellion have had the good sense to postpone their demos. Is there anyone but the Western Baptist Church who thinks it's a good idea to protest at funerals?

They say if you support free speech you'll end up defending vile people, and it's true, he shouldn't be arrested, he should be allowed to say what he said, but he is vile and it was stupid.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#265

Post by mc32 »

mattnewton wrote: post #254
mc32 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the WBC is a well known agitator and not representative of people or even protestors at large. In any case, I contend it's in extremely poor taste and does not help further the cause, and actively creates antipathy.

Sure, but talking about the effectiveness of the protest tactic is totally different than whether or not the state should arrest and imprison you for protesting that way.

Other than maths and physics, there is no natural law that says this and that are so and right. People make the laws amd they are not Americans and don't observe our laws. ASBOs were repealed in England but not Scotland; in England they were replaced by new laws (targeting economically disruptive protests, I guess).

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#266

Post by jen20 »

tialaramex wrote: post #79
Gordonjcp wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you can be arrested for crossing the street in the wrong place, and you can be shot by the police for any reason, including because they feel like it.

To be fair the British cops sometimes shoot black people for dubious reasons too. It's taken a bit more seriously here (there will automatically be an investigation if anybody dies after police contact not only the extremes of "a cop shot them" or "he apparently committed suicide while in police custody" but even something like "Police called for a welfare check, decided everything was fine, but an hour later her boy…

To be clear, this has likely happened fewer times in two decades in the UK than the average month in the US. It does happen, though, as you say.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#267

Post by ClumsyPilot »

pessimizer wrote: post #176

This is a great time for the British to have a little revolution with very modest aims like this. Both the government and the opposition are indistinguishable warmongering austerians who hate working people, British energy bills are tripling due to elite adventurism, posturing, and US ass-kissing, and the ex-colonies are openly proposing separating from the Commonwealth. What's more, the Queen alternated between a be…

> Pair it with the abolition/democratization of the Lords, and they'll finish the revolution that Cromwell spoiled.

Ironically, in the last decade the Lords have a much better track record that the Commons. They applied real scruitiny to the opressive protest bill, the Brexit bill and the bill to deal with unsafe building we discovered in the wake of corporate manslaughter, which was a result of rampant fraud in the construction industry. As a result the lords were threatened with dissolution

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56905882

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-54882088

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60032465

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#268

Post by tialaramex »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #193
tialaramex wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess Parliamentarians are likely to have read up a bit and discovered why Parliament is sovereign. The English literally tried not having a monarch, they executed Charles I for treason. This concretely answers any residual question, the Parliament can execute the King, so Parliament is sovereign. Turns out the alternative wasn't better. "Lord Protector" Cromwell (ie a dictator) wasn't an improvement over a K…

Is it going to be one of this discussion where people speak of Cromwell while pretending the USA and France don’t exist? Just asking.

The USA is the one where they give their elected figurehead pardon powers - like a King in the old times - and the previous one used them to insulate friends who very obviously did crimes. Then in fact he promises to do the same again only more so if given the chance, but his political allies protect him from prosecution anyway. Wow. I mean, I guess Cromwell was worse, but it's not exactly an enviable choice.

The US governance model is unsound, it's been around for only a relatively brief period and it's crumbling. France's setup is better, but if there had been some way to not execute the King of France I think they'd be doing just fine with some guy in a fancy hat living in one of their palaces and somebody to represent France as an idea who isn't connected to a political executive.

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#269

Post by snickerbockers »

How much power does the British monarch still have? I'm from America so I didn't learn much in school about British history post-1776, but my understanding is that they never had an event like the French Revolution or American Revolution that suddenly ended their monarchy, just a long series of minor reductions in the royal family's power going back to the Magna Carta.

From my own (admittedly uneducated on this topic) perspective, British government doesn't make any sense as it looks like a modern republic from a distance but they still have lords, kings, dukes, and other titles of nobility that seem incompatible with that.

Does the King still have the ability to order people around and pass his own laws?

Re: Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows

#270

Post by jhbadger »

egeek wrote: post #238
pessimizer wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

As a person from Northern Ireland, I'm not sure what holiday you're referring to. Closest I can think of is the 12th July, which is a holiday, but not one celebrating burning Catholics[0]. You might be referring to the bonfires that are lit on the 11th, but that's not a holiday. Aside from some small events in Scotland, the 12th July is not celebrated in the rest of the UK. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelf…

Is Guy Fawkes Day in November not a big thing in NI? It is in England, at least. Although the traditional burning of the effigy of Catholic dissident/terrorist Guy Fawkes is becoming less common and people just are more commonly just treating it as a general holiday.
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