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Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

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Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#41

Post by [deleted] »

nickff wrote: post #28
kayodelycaon wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tried this. Was not allowed to switch because it would cause an uneven class size. At least, that's what I was told the policy was for.

It's probably true; schools are generally run for the benefit and convenience of teachers, not students. The former have a strong union with outsized influence on local elections, whereas the latter don't even vote. The same incentives lead to early school start times which help teachers at the cost of students (particularly teenagers who generally have 'later' circadian rhythms).

[deleted]

Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#42

Post by kayodelycaon »

freditup wrote: post #36
nickff wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably true; schools are generally run for the benefit and convenience of teachers, not students. The former have a strong union with outsized influence on local elections, whereas the latter don't even vote. The same incentives lead to early school start times which help teachers at the cost of students (particularly teenagers who generally have 'later' circadian rhythms).

Are teachers really the ones pushing for such early starts of school? Anecdotally, most teachers I know don't love waking up at 5am in order to get ready and get to school on time. I always thought the early start was to have enough time in the afternoon and evening for after-school activities, but not sure.

My understanding was, it's so teenagers can get home before their younger siblings.

Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#43

Post by TimPC »

idontpost wrote: post #29
bombcar wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many school districts require "lesson plans" to be submitted for darn near everything, and it is much easier to just recycle the same pile of lesson plans each year than actually create new ones. I suspect much of the "lesson plan" submission stuff is TPS-level busywork.

> I suspect much of the "lesson plan" submission stuff is TPS-level busywork. Yes and no. The submission part is certainly pointless. No one reads them after the day they're used. But having a plan each day is kind of important and well supported by data as a beneficial practice. Source: Escaped Teacher.

Agree 100%. Micromanaging someone’s lessons by actually reviewing the plans is an exercise in frustration and futility. But as a student you’d know when your teacher showed up unprepared and tried to wing it.

Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#44

Post by atomicUpdate »

“There’s evidence that Black boys are more likely to be suspended for the same behaviors as other children, right?”

This feels like a statement that needs some serious backing up, since the implication is that most teachers are racist.

Assuming it true, then it’s pretty surprising how we can simultaneously call teachers heroes and racists without much debate.

Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#45

Post by garciasn »

TimPC wrote: post #40
beefman wrote: post #34

Imagine being unable to interview the new hire. You're not even told their name until the day before they start. Imagine this new hire is your boss. Who stands in front of you all day every day and watches you work. Imagine that no one in the company – not even the CEO – can fire them. Imagine being unable to quit this job for any reason. Imagine this is your first job, and you are a child, and your boss is an adult.…

Looping is stupid though because whatever small benefits accrue they don’t justify teachers learning a new curriculum every year as they bounce from grade to grade. I want my grade eight history course taught by someone who knows grade eight history well. I don’t want it to be taught by someone who spent the last three years on completely unrelated topics in previous grade’s history.

Have you talked to actual teachers about the concept? Based on what you’ve written here, what I understand from teacher friends, and my own child’s experience with looping, you all have a very different outlook than what I’ve witnessed and heard.

My son had his 1st grade teacher loop; he loved her and she loved him. It was a joy to have him feel comfortable with his teacher two years in a row. As a kid with a harder time socially as well as an anxious personality, it was wonderful for him to feel at ease two years in a row and have that stability! In addition, it was especially great for us as we received a unique look at his progression at that age.

No one was REQUIRED to loop. The teacher as well as the student and/or parents could request a student not loop.

Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#46

Post by jedberg »

sokoloff wrote: post #37
jedberg wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a professional programmer, it would be the same as asking you as a full stack developer to develop a monolith in a datacenter using java on Windows this year and then next year asking you to develop microservices in Python using linux on Kubernetes. The high level skills are similar, but the details are all different.

The details of 3rd and 4th grade are that different now?

Yes. For one, science and social studies cover completely different topics. For two, even the math and English cover very different parts of those topics. And 3rd to 4th is also a huge transition from "learning to read" to "reading to learn". 4th grade is the first time kids are expected to learn new information on their own from reading it, so it's a very different teaching experience.

Changing grades is like starting again as a brand new teacher.

Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#47

Post by replyifuagree »

It seems to me that the us education system rearranges the deck chairs while the ignoring the titanic problem that the schools are designed for the staff, not the kids.

I think our school system is approaching a local maxima where the idea that learning sucks and should be avoided is embedded in as many young brains as possible.

Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#48

Post by beefman »

onemoresoop wrote: post #8
lumost wrote: post #3

This seems like a practice that would work for some students and hurt others. Some students may not do well with a particular teacher. Being stuck for years with that teacher is a disservice to the student.

That one student should be able to switch to a different group. If all want to switch then there's a problem with the instructor. Let's look at the opposite end of the spectrum. Student loves an instructor but is needlessly switched to someone new. My point though is that the flexibility to change or stay in the same group should exist.

In U.S. public schools, this will not be allowed. Schools already do everything they can to discourage and deny teacher switching requests. Why? Because there is a large difference in quality between teachers, and everyone knows which teachers are best, but administrators aren't allowed to fire a teacher with low enrollment because of switching requests, and face class size limits in the case of the good teachers.

Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#49

Post by iambateman »

This shares the benefit of "looping" with homeschooling, which is sort of an extreme form of looping I guess. Homeschooled kids benefit tremendously from having a teacher who is _incredibly_ familiar with their previous experiences and learnings, which the teacher can draw upon to teach new ideas.

If a teacher has an even slightly better understanding of what their children already know, they are set up to succeed at helping them learn new things.

It's not the only factor that matters, but it is a big deal especially for earlier grades.

Re: Benefits of ‘looping’ kids with teachers for multiple years

#50

Post by dangerwill »

beefman wrote: post #34

Imagine being unable to interview the new hire. You're not even told their name until the day before they start. Imagine this new hire is your boss. Who stands in front of you all day every day and watches you work. Imagine that no one in the company – not even the CEO – can fire them. Imagine being unable to quit this job for any reason. Imagine this is your first job, and you are a child, and your boss is an adult.…

It is profoundly weird to look at everything through the lens of corporate life. There are places where the relationship isn't that of a boss with their boot on their employees' neck.
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