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Want jobs? Encourage immigration

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Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#71

Post by tokenadult »

nobody314159265 wrote: post #16
flourpower wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I have a solution to this problem, but who does the filtering once you remove the job offer as a prerequisite? I can't conceive of a situation where the people that get put in charge of that process are actually qualified.

In every other country there is a central government who have a department of immigration who accept applications from outsiders and judge them on their experience, qualifications, education etc. You should try having a functional and effective national government - just a thought?

In every other country there is a central government who have a department of immigration who accept applications from outsiders and judge them on their experience, qualifications, education etc.

How many of those countries have a net INFLOW of immigrants from the United States? How many have a net outflow of immigrants to the United States, under the current United States system?

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#72

Post by muzz »

marshallp wrote: post #48
_delirium wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US really needs to emulate other countries here. Which other countries are these? As the holder of an employer-tied 3-year temporary Danish work permit, with no possibility to even apply for the Danish equivalent of a green card until I've resided in the country with solid employment for at least 4 years (and passed a language exam, something the U.S. doesn't require), I don't think it can be this one... Though…

most european countries have such a xenophobic system, but the uk, canada, iraland, new zealand, and australia have really open systems in place

then those countries should be receiving the benefits of immigrant-entrepreneurs and now be hotbeds of innovation because of it. it doesn't seem like that's happening.

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#73

Post by tokenadult »

microarchitect wrote: post #15

Why doesn't the US move to a points-based system like the UK and Canada? This seems like a simple and sensible solution to a complex problem that ensures that the people who immigrate are in some sense "useful" to the country. I also don't understand why the green card backlog isn't being handled efficiently. Surely, if somebody is paying, say more than 20k in income taxes every year for, say 5 years in a row, there…

I feel like the US is the opposite of an "agile" government.

Yes. That is intentional by the design of the federal Constitution. A friend of mine, an engineer, was discussing American politics with me and another friend, a mathematics teacher, one day. The mathematics teacher decried the inefficiency of United States government. The engineer replied, "I'm an engineer. The one thing I'm afraid of is EFFICIENT government." Many Americans are strongly in agreement with Henry David Thoreau that "That government is best which governs least."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_(Thoreau)#.2...

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#74

Post by tokenadult »

potatolicious wrote: post #6
kiba wrote: post #3

Jobs. It would seems that we have an obsession with creating jobs. If you hear politicians, and if my perception are right, they talk about jobs. Not whether or not we get more purchasing power than ever before. Not whether or not our lifestyle is more fulfilling than ever before. Jobs. More jobs. Less jobs. More competitive Americans. No manufacturing jobs. Colleges not creating enough people to fill jobs. Robots ar…

This is a nice thought, and might be relevant a few decades ago when America was at the top of its game in relation to all the other countries on Earth. Now, I'm not so sure. You're talking about a post-scarcity society when a growing portion of Americans can't even put food on the table or a roof over their head. You're talking the personal fulfillment when more and more Americans are forced to work multiple jobs ju…

You're talking about a post-scarcity society when a growing portion of Americans can't even put food on the table or a roof over their head.

What are the actual numbers here? How does this situation compare with other countries in the world?

The huge majority of Americans have, if anything, excessive food on their tables, and the great majority of Americans live in houses with sounder roofs over more square feet of floor space than people in most other countries. Why should Americans feel any urgency about changes in immigration policy when they know that most people who might like to come to the United States will instantly have more access to food and housing as soon as they set foot in America?

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#75

Post by tokenadult »

Mikushi wrote: post #44
felipemnoa wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> the U.S. agent bombarded me with question on what i was gonna do in canada, where i was staying, on a not so friendly tone as if i was lying This seems to be pretty standard. They are trying to catch you on a lie. I don't know about the "not so friendly tone" though. I guess it depends on the agent and what kind of day/issues he is having.

Yeah but last time i checked, Canada is not part of the U.S. and with a visa and ticket, that should be enough for him, if somebody wants to grill me it should be a Canadian Immigration agent.

[AFTER EDIT: I'm withdrawing an earlier statement in the first posting of this comment after doing some fact-checking prompted by the reply below. Thanks. I'll look up some more analysis of the current policy and its historical origins over the next few days. The sentence below was the last sentence in the original version of this comment.]

It's regrettable that today skepticism at the border is so general--surely most visitors to the United States, including you, mean no harm to the United States--but there are legal problems with being selective about whom to interrogate, so almost every visitor is questioned.

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#76

Post by scarface548 »

_delirium wrote: post #20
potatolicious wrote: post #4

The US really needs to emulate other countries here. The problem here is that the "immigrant" visa is really the same thing as a work visa, and that leads to a great deal of abuse. For one thing, the eligibility is tied to an employer, who is incentivized to embellish, cheat, and otherwise finagle their way to a visa. The expectation that the visa is temporary also sets a lower bar for entry - even though many of the…

> The US really needs to emulate other countries here. Which other countries are these? As the holder of an employer-tied 3-year temporary Danish work permit, with no possibility to even apply for the Danish equivalent of a green card until I've resided in the country with solid employment for at least 4 years (and passed a language exam, something the U.S. doesn't require), I don't think it can be this one... Though…

It would be awesome if it was just 4 yrs. The current EB3 wait-time for indian and chinese nationals is estimated to be around 70 years.

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#77

Post by scarface548 »

jnbiche wrote: post #29
wavephorm wrote: post #2

I distinctly remember 2001-2003 during in the post dot-com, post-911 recession when there was loud outcry to cancel all visas to open up jobs for American-born workers. And in subsequent years these ideas took on the form of erecting a wall around Mexico, and eliminating technology-related visa categories, and ending up in today's environment of extreme hostility toward business travellers at American ports of entry.

Do other business travelers experience this extreme hostility at US ports of entry? I don't do nearly as much international travel as I used to, so I'm really interested in hearing others' experiences.

"If what you are saying is wrong we'll find you and kick you out like dogs" - An actual dialogue blurted out by the immigration "officer" at the port of entry.

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#78

Post by worldvoyageur »

tokenadult wrote: post #75
Mikushi wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but last time i checked, Canada is not part of the U.S. and with a visa and ticket, that should be enough for him, if somebody wants to grill me it should be a Canadian Immigration agent.

[AFTER EDIT: I'm withdrawing an earlier statement in the first posting of this comment after doing some fact-checking prompted by the reply below. Thanks. I'll look up some more analysis of the current policy and its historical origins over the next few days. The sentence below was the last sentence in the original version of this comment.] It's regrettable that today skepticism at the border is so general--surely mo…

That some of the 9/11 attackers entered the US through Canada is a thoroughly debunked myth. Plus, all the attackers entered the US legally, with valid visas. The startling persistence of the myth attests to its power to support a particular side of the debate about 'illegals' or 'weak borders'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumors_about_the_September_11_a...

Misinformation: rumors later shown to be false:

[...]

Claims that terrorists entered the United States through Canada On September 12, 2001, Vincent Cannistraro, a former CIA chief of counter-intelligence told the press that five of the terrorists had entered Maine from Canada via a ferry from Yarmouth, Nova Scotia and/or a remote border point in Saint-Théophile, Quebec near Jackman, Maine.[1] The myth was revived again in April 2009 when Janet Napolitano, the United States Secretary of Homeland Security, informed a Canadian television interviewer that some of the terrorist-hijackers who carried out the September 11 attacks entered the United States from Canada. In the same month, senator John McCain also told Fox News that some of the 9/11 hijackers did come through Canada.[2]

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#79

Post by jnbiche »

Mikushi wrote: post #32
jnbiche wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do other business travelers experience this extreme hostility at US ports of entry? I don't do nearly as much international travel as I used to, so I'm really interested in hearing others' experiences.

Yes, i am french (from France), been living in Montreal for 5years know, speaks perfect english (no silly french accent), but anytime i have to go to the US i get treated like shit by immigration agent when they see my passport. And it's been consistent across the 20+ times i've had to cross the border. Sometimes they even go into what i believe to be none of their business, last christmas i was coming back from Fran…

If it's any consolation, I've often been asked the same questions, with the same suspicion bordering on hostility, when I traveled to Europe, including France (and I also speak French with almost no foreign accent -- was working as an interpreter at the time). This is the job of the customs agents. I don't think it's something unique to the US.

I will say that Canada for the most part has unusually welcoming customs agents (my wife is Canadian). So you may be "spoiled" by living in Canada. Unfortunately, even Canada's openness seems to be changing a bit now, based on my experiences over the past several years.

I'm guessing that you are too young to remember traveling through Europe before the Schengen treaty took effect and opened up the borders in 1995, but as someone who studied in France and traveled across Europe in 1991-1992, I can assure you that you would have been subject to the same treatment back then at the German, Spanish, or Belgian borders. The job of the borders guards is to be suspicious, and 9/11 has only solidified those tendencies.

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#80

Post by etz »

how many immigrants would it be necessary to let in the country to have one of these success stories?? If we let in only the best and brightest, then success is assured! But if we do the right thing, and let nature take it's course....Assuming that the person is a 1 percenter, then it would only take one hundred people to create wealth. On the other hand, the united states has 300 million people, if 25 percent of the successful startups are by foreigners, then that would mean about 75 million people would have to enter the country to create 25 percent. All for 15 or 20 THOUSAND jobs. What will the rest do??
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