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When Big Companies Are a Good Idea

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Re: When Big Companies Are a Good Idea

#11
post #8

Good article - more people should be aware of Coase's work. However, I would surmise that PG was talking about "you" in the sense of "a hacker someone like myself", not about people in general, many of whom should not go try and create companies.

PG may have been talking to "a hacker someone like myself", but arbitrarily defining "you" is a bit of a fallacy in my opinion. If "you" can mean that, then why can't "you" refer just to the subset of people that could start successful companies?

Sorry for the semantics argument, but I don't really think PG (or anyone) can use "you" to refer anyone but whoever reads their work.

Re: When Big Companies Are a Good Idea

#13

tl;dr -- Big companies are a good idea because they offer employment and suit the author's nature nicely because he possesses a strong "aversion to business." Starting the article with pg's question--"Why be a manager when you could be a founder or early employee at a startup?"--then going on a different tangent altogether to answer "Why do large firms exist?" never left me satisfied with the author's claim he "could…

I'm going to throw out my opinion here (for discussion), but I should preface it by thanking you, I learned a lot from your post.

It seems large companies have a few distinct advantages:

1. They can operate divisions at a loss (e.g. Microsoft Entertainment and the XBox 1). They can "ride out" a down economy. This would be like having an angel with really deep pockets.

2. Stronger negotiating position in all cases: employees, clients, and vendors. Again, the investor network can compensate here for startups.

3. Kind of an outcome of #1 and #2: brand and leadership longevity. Sometimes you really can know more after having operated a business for decades.

My opinion is that all those advantages could create barriers to entry... but the big co's have enough problems of their own to let small co's innovate past them.

IMO this is good for both the large and the small, and especially good for the market: the established players can bring huge resources to bear on optimizing "solved" problems. The startups bring the right mix for getting ahead of the curve.

Re: When Big Companies Are a Good Idea

#14

tl;dr -- Big companies are a good idea because they offer employment and suit the author's nature nicely because he possesses a strong "aversion to business." Starting the article with pg's question--"Why be a manager when you could be a founder or early employee at a startup?"--then going on a different tangent altogether to answer "Why do large firms exist?" never left me satisfied with the author's claim he "could…

I am thinking that using equity as compensation may be a better idea than offering "advancement".

Re: When Big Companies Are a Good Idea

#15
post #13

tl;dr -- Big companies are a good idea because they offer employment and suit the author's nature nicely because he possesses a strong "aversion to business." Starting the article with pg's question--"Why be a manager when you could be a founder or early employee at a startup?"--then going on a different tangent altogether to answer "Why do large firms exist?" never left me satisfied with the author's claim he "could…

I'm going to throw out my opinion here (for discussion), but I should preface it by thanking you, I learned a lot from your post. It seems large companies have a few distinct advantages: 1. They can operate divisions at a loss (e.g. Microsoft Entertainment and the XBox 1). They can "ride out" a down economy. This would be like having an angel with really deep pockets. 2. Stronger negotiating position in all cases: em…

These are excellent points that get us closer to considering the question of when big companies are a good idea--especially #1. The ability to operate divisions at a loss and ride out a down economy is certainly an advantage had over the small firm who one might expect to be much harder hit when its core competency is hard pressed by external forces. So, one might be justified in saying a big company is a good idea when market forces bear negatively on participants, allowing the large firm to weather the storm less disastrously than a small firm. Of course, one can counter this proposition by arguing the large firm thus exhibits an unnaturally advantageous existence, not only bypassing but perhaps also eroding, perverting, retarding, and preventing evolution of the market in directions for which it is unprepared and in which it would lose its currently stronger standing. And yes, a similarly framed argument can be made for the large firm in the context of the evolution of markets--the larger, stronger company is the more fit, as evidenced by its ability to ride out market changes, retooling and repositioning itself for future success when the chaos dies down. However, I think it more likely this is only true as a result of its unfair advantage in having been large enough to not be naturally weakened & removed by the market as smaller firms are--because it is not removed from the market as a result of large concentrations of capital not possessed by smaller firms who are potentially better suited to adapt to changing conditions more rapidly but are forced out due to markets operating in line with extant large-firm bias (even when the market itself could benefit from the loss of the large firms).

#2 is, for me, quite close to the line of thinking offered in the OP, and of course the one I take issue with--it is more a statement of the way the market works now than a solid reason for why a big company is a good idea. I find this is a result of market players operating in such a manner as to give preferential treatment to a large company for reasons that don't actually equate to a larger company possessing this stronger negotiating position a priori. Rather, leveraging an existing preference that is itself an artificial construct (historically built by large firms) atop the market offers little in defense of why the large firm exists or is a good idea. In essence, the large firm enjoys a stronger negotiating position in the market because players in the market prefer to negotiate with a large firm because they believe it is in their best interest to do so because the large firm wields vastly larger capital with which it entices the players to negotiate with it over smaller players. This is circular and, in my view, ought then be discarded in attempts to explicate why this is a good idea.

#3 is a bit harder to pin down. I'm not convinced there is an inherent goodness in brand longevity as far as markets are concerned--or where employees, vendors, clients, or anyone else matters. I also find the material history of humanity and the markets replete with more examples of why leadership longevity is a bad thing than the reverse. There are certainly far more examples of long-term leaders ultimately driving their companies--large or small, it doesn't really matter--into relative oblivion or disarray or irrelevance than long-term leaders consistently innovating ahead of the markets, responding to changing conditions and rapidly correcting course so as to move forward. Leadership longevity often results in market players who have a vested interest in maintaining their position in the market through either coercion, prevention, or weathering out blips. It also can create companies who fail to change with the market because they believe they have it right and the market has it wrong. Perhaps in some cases this can be true ... but the perspective is always funny to me when people discuss "correcting" the market or some similar type of action. Correcting the market has always struck me as code for "get the market back in line with the operational goals of the large firms who have been benefitting the most." When the market moves against them, they seek correction and realignment. When the market moves toward them, they seek protection and cultivation.

Anyway, your points are far more interesting avenues to thoughtfully consider when big companies are a good idea. Not yet to the "Why do large firms exist?" question from the article yet, but at least getting closer to what I thought the author was going to do. And, we're still far from the question the author started the article with in the first place, of course.

Re: When Big Companies Are a Good Idea

#16
pg was specifically addressing the issue of management that is out of touch, while Coase was explaining the role of the firm. There is no reason why these reasons couldn't co-exist.

The main driver behind running a startup and working in a big company is a tension between two factors: control and leverage. As the chief of a small startup, a young person exerts a great deal of control over their destiny. However, they are short of resources. Even $20k from yc only goes so far. In contrast, at a bigger company, one has to constantly fight for resources. However, when they are available, and applied judiciously, the money can go a very long way. There is also the added benefit of working with some very brilliant technical people who may have no ounce of business-sense in their bones.

On the far end of the scale, when one has advanced further up the rank, there is a great deal of firepower at your disposal. It is actually the same with startups. No startup can forever stay at 2 employees. In the end, there has to be sensible management in place.

Re: When Big Companies Are a Good Idea

#17
I worked at a semiconductor mixed-signal startup - rife with control-loop theory, analog design, digital design/firmware, and lots of application support/software. They do exist. It's just very hard for them to last without eventually getting acquired by an established bigCo. But the same kind of rings true for a decent chunk of startups in the software space.

That said, most semiconductor startups do partnerships with bigger companies for second-sourcing or foundry help.

The transaction cost problem is true whether you're a startup or a big company. If anything it's better to be a highly-partnered startup than a startup-division at a big company as you may be able to avoid lots of the bureaucratic headaches the large company is accustomed to, helping to keep employees more motivated.

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