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Want jobs? Encourage immigration

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Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#31

Post by HistoryInAction »

georgemcbay wrote: post #27

I'm pro-immigration, but the article still feels like a bit of a sham to me by highlightling Brin, Omidyar and Yang without addressing the fact that Sergey Brin immigrated to America when he was 6, Pierre Omidyar was also 6 and Jerry Yang was 10. How do you know then that they'll be massive job creators? Certainly each of them had ambitious parents and that's something, but then so does just about everyone who active…

But since we don't have a visa that allows for entrepreneurial founders to immigrate here, how can we have examples to highlight their potential contributions? The closest thing we can do is point to similar people.

Personally, I think that Vinod Khosla and Manu Kumar are better examples. I'm of the understanding that Khosla didn't have a valid visa when Sun was founded, but an exemption was made because of the sheer success of the company from nearly day 1.

The other thing I want to look at is people like Robin Li of Baidu, American educated, employed by American companies, but when it came time to create a company, he went home. Possibly, even likely, that was because a company serving Chinese should be based in China, but it's certain that since he didn't have a green card, he wouldn't be able to get a visa as a founder to stay here. America loses when people who could stay here to found companies return to their country to create jobs and foreign competition there.

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#32

Post by Mikushi »

jnbiche wrote: post #29
wavephorm wrote: post #2

I distinctly remember 2001-2003 during in the post dot-com, post-911 recession when there was loud outcry to cancel all visas to open up jobs for American-born workers. And in subsequent years these ideas took on the form of erecting a wall around Mexico, and eliminating technology-related visa categories, and ending up in today's environment of extreme hostility toward business travellers at American ports of entry.

Do other business travelers experience this extreme hostility at US ports of entry? I don't do nearly as much international travel as I used to, so I'm really interested in hearing others' experiences.

Yes, i am french (from France), been living in Montreal for 5years know, speaks perfect english (no silly french accent), but anytime i have to go to the US i get treated like shit by immigration agent when they see my passport. And it's been consistent across the 20+ times i've had to cross the border.

Sometimes they even go into what i believe to be none of their business, last christmas i was coming back from France, going through Washington (just a 6h stop), and despise the fact i had my ticket saying i was going to Montreal, my canadian working visa, the U.S. agent bombarded me with question on what i was gonna do in canada, where i was staying, on a not so friendly tone as if i was lying.

This is why i now refuse whenever possible to go through the U.S..

As for the Visa situation, it is really a pain, i had numerous companies contacting me -thinking i was Canadian as i list my town as Montreal- from SF or Seattle, then after successful interviews, getting refused by they H.R. department because i'm French and VISA paperwork is either too much or just not even possible for them.

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#33

Post by georgemcbay »

HistoryInAction wrote: post #31
georgemcbay wrote: post #27

I'm pro-immigration, but the article still feels like a bit of a sham to me by highlightling Brin, Omidyar and Yang without addressing the fact that Sergey Brin immigrated to America when he was 6, Pierre Omidyar was also 6 and Jerry Yang was 10. How do you know then that they'll be massive job creators? Certainly each of them had ambitious parents and that's something, but then so does just about everyone who active…

But since we don't have a visa that allows for entrepreneurial founders to immigrate here, how can we have examples to highlight their potential contributions? The closest thing we can do is point to similar people. Personally, I think that Vinod Khosla and Manu Kumar are better examples. I'm of the understanding that Khosla didn't have a valid visa when Sun was founded, but an exemption was made because of the sheer…

I don't disagree with you at all on the immigration issues and I fully support fast track immigration & citizenship for high-value immigrants, I just think it is intellectually dishonest to use 3 founders who all immigrated before they were teenagers as examples for a point the author was trying to make when they don't really fit the narrative. That the author didn't even mention the age that these men immigrated makes it feel like she was trying to pull a fast one on the reader who has heard the names but isn't really familiar with their stories (which will be most readers).

As far as Baidu goes, I don't think it could exist as a non-Chinese company, and more because of China's government policies than the USA's.

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#34

Post by HistoryInAction »

georgemcbay wrote: post #33
HistoryInAction wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But since we don't have a visa that allows for entrepreneurial founders to immigrate here, how can we have examples to highlight their potential contributions? The closest thing we can do is point to similar people. Personally, I think that Vinod Khosla and Manu Kumar are better examples. I'm of the understanding that Khosla didn't have a valid visa when Sun was founded, but an exemption was made because of the sheer…

I don't disagree with you at all on the immigration issues and I fully support fast track immigration & citizenship for high-value immigrants, I just think it is intellectually dishonest to use 3 founders who all immigrated before they were teenagers as examples for a point the author was trying to make when they don't really fit the narrative. That the author didn't even mention the age that these men immigrated mak…

The fit the narrative of 'immigrants are statistically hungrier for startup success,' specifically referencing this line in the article: "According to statistics from Partnership for a New American Economy, 40% of Fortune 500 companies were created by immigrants or their children."

From there, the author goes on to say that if the immigrants and their children are more likely to start companies, why are we preventing young adults from coming here to start companies, especially if they are validated by making something people want as demonstrated by either VC validation or pure revenue numbers? The third path of Startup Visa 2011 is for people valued enough to receive a US education or H1-B visa, as currently they are not valued enough to be allowed to start a company, with no visa existing for them to do so.

I find it a bit of a stretch, but not intellectually dishonest, though I do see why it's reasonable to think so.

I take the point on Baidu, but that's the sort of company I'm looking to promote as a counterpoint when we pitch our next follow-ups to ABC and NBC after Amit's story.

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#35

Post by barumrho »

In Canada, international students are given work permit up to 3 years after graduation and after 1 year of full-time employment they can apply for permanent residency. I think the US could benefit from a similar policy.

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#36

Post by aspensmonster »

nobody314159265 wrote: post #14
[deleted] wrote: post #11

[deleted]

'our' jobs? Suppose you are in california and Caltech hires a new Yorker as a postdoc instead of you - is that any better/worse than them hiring a Canadian/Brit or German? Suppose they hired an American who had done their graduate work at oxford - is that better than hiring a Brit who had done their phd at Caltech?

Not to put words in greenName's mouth, but I believe the assumption is that a New Yorker and a Californian both would expect appropriate compensation for their work. Regardless of whether a citizen of the United States studied here or abroad, he would still expect a salary commiserate with his qualifications. Someone who is effectively an indentured servant on an H1-B visa will take whatever is offered to him because he knows that to do otherwise is to lose his shot at permanent residency or citizenship.

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#37

Post by thmcmahon »

_delirium wrote: post #20
potatolicious wrote: post #4

The US really needs to emulate other countries here. The problem here is that the "immigrant" visa is really the same thing as a work visa, and that leads to a great deal of abuse. For one thing, the eligibility is tied to an employer, who is incentivized to embellish, cheat, and otherwise finagle their way to a visa. The expectation that the visa is temporary also sets a lower bar for entry - even though many of the…

> The US really needs to emulate other countries here. Which other countries are these? As the holder of an employer-tied 3-year temporary Danish work permit, with no possibility to even apply for the Danish equivalent of a green card until I've resided in the country with solid employment for at least 4 years (and passed a language exam, something the U.S. doesn't require), I don't think it can be this one... Though…

In Australia we have a temporary employer sponsored skilled visa (the 457 visa). Median processing times for this visa are 21 days. It is valid for 4 years, you can be sponsored for a permanent visa after 2 years.

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#38

Post by felipemnoa »

Mikushi wrote: post #32
jnbiche wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do other business travelers experience this extreme hostility at US ports of entry? I don't do nearly as much international travel as I used to, so I'm really interested in hearing others' experiences.

Yes, i am french (from France), been living in Montreal for 5years know, speaks perfect english (no silly french accent), but anytime i have to go to the US i get treated like shit by immigration agent when they see my passport. And it's been consistent across the 20+ times i've had to cross the border. Sometimes they even go into what i believe to be none of their business, last christmas i was coming back from Fran…

>> the U.S. agent bombarded me with question on what i was gonna do in canada, where i was staying, on a not so friendly tone as if i was lyingThis seems to be pretty standard. They are trying to catch you on a lie. I don't know about the "not so friendly tone" though. I guess it depends on the agent and what kind of day/issues he is having.

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#39

Post by incosta »

I agree that US needs an entrepreneur visas. But I disagree with author's suggestion that all US-educated graduates must be given green cards. A lot of them came to US to study because they could afford it (often via wealthy parents). I don't think it's fair to give green cards only because they graduated from a US university thanks to their rich parents.

Foreign students have one year after graduation to find an employer, convert to H-1B and then ask the employer to sponsor the green card. Nothing wrong with this.

However, of course H1-B to green card to citizenship must be done in a more timely manner. In many cases it takes too long. The time spent on waiting for the green card (sometimes as long as 4-5 years or even more, due to slow bureaucracy) must be in some way counted towards the citizenship requirement of 5-year residency.

I think as baby-boomer generation starts to retire en-mass, U.S. will have no choice but to liberalize and simplify its immigration policy. It is competing against many other developed countries for younger workers and talent, and the earnings disparity is becoming less of a factor in many developing countries. There's just no way out but to make immigration process faster and more attractive if the U.S. wants to win.

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#40

Post by _delirium »

HistoryInAction wrote: post #34
georgemcbay wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you at all on the immigration issues and I fully support fast track immigration & citizenship for high-value immigrants, I just think it is intellectually dishonest to use 3 founders who all immigrated before they were teenagers as examples for a point the author was trying to make when they don't really fit the narrative. That the author didn't even mention the age that these men immigrated mak…

The fit the narrative of 'immigrants are statistically hungrier for startup success,' specifically referencing this line in the article: "According to statistics from Partnership for a New American Economy, 40% of Fortune 500 companies were created by immigrants or their children." From there, the author goes on to say that if the immigrants and their children are more likely to start companies, why are we preventing…

The main thing that seems like a huge stretch is that those are good examples for an idea of a "parental visa", giving visas to immigrants with children who you think are likely to be good parents, whose kids will then grow up in U.S. society and be highly successful. Not as good examples in support of the "entrepreneur visa" idea, which expects the people receiving the visa to themselves start a company in the short term, something that didn't actually happen in any of those examples.
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