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Want jobs? Encourage immigration

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Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#21
post #12

One thing is work visas; another is college visas. I remember being told (as a European) in the equivalent of high school(?) that if I wanted to go to an American college, I would have to start preparations a year and a half in advance - mainly due to the time spent on processing visas. I would have loved nothing better than to go to an American college, but, at least at the time, that made it neigh-impossible to app…

The NYT had an interesting article about increasing numbers of international students on American campuses, possibly for financial reasons, since most universities are not need-blind for international students. I'm guessing it's easier now, and there are certainly professionals who facilitate the process in China, according to the article.

http://chronicle.com/article/Chinese-Students-Prove-a/129628...

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#23
post #7

I'm shocked at the amount of xenophobia in the comments on the CNN site. Being Canadian, I have no idea whether it is representative of the population at large, but it appears that many Americans have been brainwashed into the thinking that the only immigrants are the ones driving cabs or working at fast food. The problem is that everybody has been talking themselves to death about illegal immigration, and haven't fo…

The problem is that most Americans are the descendents of the people that arrived, displaced the native population, took their land and exploited it's natural resources. So naturally they are wary of people coming along and doing the same to them. This doesn't really apply to Canada.

[deleted]

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#24
It's not a zero-sum game when you bring in bright people. Smart people create opportunity around them.

On the other hand, I'm not so enthusiastic about lowering immigration barriers so we can get cheap workers to robotically throw together CRUD forms. (I guess that work is outsourced, anyway?)

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#25
post #7

I'm shocked at the amount of xenophobia in the comments on the CNN site. Being Canadian, I have no idea whether it is representative of the population at large, but it appears that many Americans have been brainwashed into the thinking that the only immigrants are the ones driving cabs or working at fast food. The problem is that everybody has been talking themselves to death about illegal immigration, and haven't fo…

The problem is that most Americans are the descendents of the people that arrived, displaced the native population, took their land and exploited it's natural resources. So naturally they are wary of people coming along and doing the same to them. This doesn't really apply to Canada.

I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but I have to ask: do you really think there were no indigenous peoples in Canada when the French and English came to settle there? Just pristine wilderness?

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#27
I'm pro-immigration, but the article still feels like a bit of a sham to me by highlightling Brin, Omidyar and Yang without addressing the fact that Sergey Brin immigrated to America when he was 6, Pierre Omidyar was also 6 and Jerry Yang was 10.

How do you know then that they'll be massive job creators? Certainly each of them had ambitious parents and that's something, but then so does just about everyone who actively works to immigrate to a new place for a better life... assuming we can't figure out who the next Brin will be when they are 6 or 10 (and we can't), is the author arguing we should just open up the floodgates to everyone with educated parents? Because that's a heckofalot of people.

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#28
post #8

If you read TechCrunch (Wadhwa's pieces especially) or the ABC article referenced, this piece contains absolutely nothing new, just a rehash of the same things. Sparse, suspect data, plenty of correlation/causation fallacies, and topped off with a populist appeal to "create jobs"

One issue in terms of data that I struggle with on researching this issue is that we're discussing a big empty space and wondering why it is empty. Immigrants in the US aren't allowed to build companies and create jobs unless they are very lucky/connected or they wait a long period of time to get their green card, since no visa currently exists for founders.

We can't do A/B testing to see if our suspicions that we'd have more startups and more jobs for US citizens if we allowed more founders—not more blanket immigration, mind you—into the country. The people who do find a way in tend to be the best and the brightest of the pool, so our anecdata looks favorable. There seem to be indications that immigrants and first-generation citizens tend to be 'hungrier' than more established populations, though that doesn't say anything about success/failure rates.

From a physics perspective, it's like hunting dark matter. We suspect that job growth would result from passing Startup Visa or STEM Green Cards, but economics theories are nowhere close to the rigor of physics theories. VCs still only invest in solid, market-driven ideas. I'd rather trust to them and to the market as a whole as to who sees success than have the government throw up artificial barriers to block non-Americans from American networks of capital and talent, especially when it means the failure to launch of startups that might make my life better.

Kauffman does indicate that young companies produce the most net job growth in America: http://www.kauffman.org/newsroom/kauffman-foundation-analysi... , though as Steve Blank says, 'startups' are lumped together when there's a large differentiation that needs to be taken into account: http://steveblank.com/2011/09/01/why-governments-don%E2%80%9...

The best bit of public policy analysis I've seen on Startup Visa and implications for job growth is from the National Foundation for American Policy (NFAP), but they studied the 2010 Startup Visa, which is much more limited than even the 2011 Startup Visa. The 2011 version of the bill doesn't address STEM Green Cards and is strictly limited in an attempt to pass a conservative House of Representatives, whose majority has a strong anti-immigration faction.

So we're left with all of the arguments that you state. However, note that a thoughtful person like yourself isn't the target audience of something on CNN. The NFAP analysis is probably more 'chewy' for someone who wants to dive into the issue.

EDIT: Forgot the NFAP link: http://www.nfap.com/pdf/092910NFAPPolicyBriefImmigrantEntrep...

Re: Want jobs? Encourage immigration

#29

I distinctly remember 2001-2003 during in the post dot-com, post-911 recession when there was loud outcry to cancel all visas to open up jobs for American-born workers. And in subsequent years these ideas took on the form of erecting a wall around Mexico, and eliminating technology-related visa categories, and ending up in today's environment of extreme hostility toward business travellers at American ports of entry.

Do other business travelers experience this extreme hostility at US ports of entry? I don't do nearly as much international travel as I used to, so I'm really interested in hearing others' experiences.
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