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MVP.css – Minimalist stylesheet for HTML elements

andybrewer.github.io

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Re: MVP.css – Minimalist stylesheet for HTML elements

#41

Post by chrismorgan »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #2

It is hard to take any stylesheet seriously when their website doesn't even properly use meta color scheme tags. Also, their examples are like the opposite of normal element approaches to what you're trying to accomplish. for quote attribution? How does that even make sense?

I think blockquote attribution recommendations are perhaps the least stable part of the HTML spec I can think of. There have been at least three, I think at least four, completely different and mostly mutually-incompatible recommendations in the past decade. `blockquote > footer` was the recommendation a few years ago. Now they say https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/grouping-content.html...>:

> Attribution for the quotation, if any, must be placed outside the blockquote element.

… and suggest things like `blockquote + p` and `figure > blockquote + figcaption` instead. I will also note that that use of figure would have been semantically inappropriate a decade ago, when figure was supposed to be something that could reasonably be taken out of the document flow, but now that’s been downgraded to just being a self-contained unit, though it may be able to be taken by itself and it’s generally suggested that you refer to figures by their captions.

Re: MVP.css – Minimalist stylesheet for HTML elements

#42

Post by jiggywiggy »

chrismorgan wrote: post #34

Previous discussions: • https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25167928 (21 November 2020, 82 comments) • https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22681270 (25 March 2020, 91 comments) —⁂— > No class names, no frameworks, just semantic HTML and you're done. The trouble with this claim is that MVP.css abuses semantic HTML badly, using completely inappropriate elements all over the place (e.g. aside for cards, and b/strong/i…

Html semantics is really for purists.

Besides a few accessibility things to be aware of, like clicks and tabs for example.

The rest has zero impact on the browser and user experience. It was a nice idea but never got off the ground precisely because most of them hardly had any real difference from a simple div.

Re: MVP.css – Minimalist stylesheet for HTML elements

#43

Post by gabereiser »

reacharavindh wrote: post #28
franciscop wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

align="right" wouldn't work?

No, it didn’t. The images always showed up big and occupied the whole width of the div. Not sure what I missed. I will have to try to do it again later today.

What you’re looking for is float [1]

[1] https://www.w3schools.com/cssref/pr_class_float.asp

Re: MVP.css – Minimalist stylesheet for HTML elements

#44

Post by chrismorgan »

patates wrote: post #36
chrismorgan wrote: post #34

Previous discussions: • https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25167928 (21 November 2020, 82 comments) • https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22681270 (25 March 2020, 91 comments) —⁂— > No class names, no frameworks, just semantic HTML and you're done. The trouble with this claim is that MVP.css abuses semantic HTML badly, using completely inappropriate elements all over the place (e.g. aside for cards, and b/strong/i…

> the author has declined to change these things despite acknowledging that they’re wrong I mean, if they already have projects running with this, it makes sense. If I learned one thing in my professional life is that while being a perfectionist already is not the best way to approach the vast majority of the problems, it's especially true when it comes to HTML. Also, I hate to be that guy, but seriously, this thing…

I enjoy reviewing things like this and pointing out the problems in the hopes of improving them, or at least teaching others who will hear—when I post detailed reviews, I normally get positive reviews on the reviews (whether from the original author or from others), and feel I have helped people. But I don’t actually use things like this; I’m far too strongly opinionated and will do my own thing every time. (And for anyone else thinking of forking something like this: there are already a very large number of things like this, consider whether it’s worth the bother, maybe just find another one that has a different set of problems. :-) )

Re: MVP.css – Minimalist stylesheet for HTML elements

#45

Post by smt88 »

jiggywiggy wrote: post #42
chrismorgan wrote: post #34

Previous discussions: • https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25167928 (21 November 2020, 82 comments) • https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22681270 (25 March 2020, 91 comments) —⁂— > No class names, no frameworks, just semantic HTML and you're done. The trouble with this claim is that MVP.css abuses semantic HTML badly, using completely inappropriate elements all over the place (e.g. aside for cards, and b/strong/i…

Html semantics is really for purists. Besides a few accessibility things to be aware of, like clicks and tabs for example. The rest has zero impact on the browser and user experience. It was a nice idea but never got off the ground precisely because most of them hardly had any real difference from a simple div.

Semantic HTML is useful for search engines and people who need accessibility (e.g. people who use screen readers).

Re: MVP.css – Minimalist stylesheet for HTML elements

#46

Post by brtkdotse »

awb wrote: post #19
laundermaf wrote: post #18

Having such a stylesheet not automatically work in dark mode defeats the purpose. It says "no classes" but then it demands that you add an invalid attribute on your HTML to trigger it. OK, that's a no for me. Source: https://github.com/andybrewer/mvp/issues/76#issuecomment-121...

Author of MVP.css here. Dark mode is a really cool CSS feature, but it requires a level of maintenance that goes above and beyond an MVP IMO, so I decided to remove support for it. I had it included originally, but it meant 2x the QA and 2x the icons in some cases. If it’s important to you there are other libraries that might be a better fit.

I admire your ability to maintain a friendly attitude despite the rather abrasive tone in the original comment.

Re: MVP.css – Minimalist stylesheet for HTML elements

#47

Post by gherkinnn »

sandreas wrote: post #25

Short question: Does anyone know about any performance issues using semantic vs class-based css? I ask, because in the early days of css we also tried to use semantic style and had strange rendering issues on huge data tables and everytime, when the page had a lot of content. After trying a few things we came to the conclusion, that (especially but not only) IE had huge performance issues with semantic style. After s…

The last time I saw CSS selector performance come up was in 2015 but most search results are even older.

Nowadays you’ll have a thousand problems worth solving before you get to fussing over selectors.

Re: MVP.css – Minimalist stylesheet for HTML elements

#48

Post by zichy »

jiggywiggy wrote: post #42
chrismorgan wrote: post #34

Previous discussions: • https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25167928 (21 November 2020, 82 comments) • https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22681270 (25 March 2020, 91 comments) —⁂— > No class names, no frameworks, just semantic HTML and you're done. The trouble with this claim is that MVP.css abuses semantic HTML badly, using completely inappropriate elements all over the place (e.g. aside for cards, and b/strong/i…

Html semantics is really for purists. Besides a few accessibility things to be aware of, like clicks and tabs for example. The rest has zero impact on the browser and user experience. It was a nice idea but never got off the ground precisely because most of them hardly had any real difference from a simple div.

That's a nice way to say "I don't care about accessibility".

Re: MVP.css – Minimalist stylesheet for HTML elements

#49

Post by [deleted] »

chrismorgan wrote: post #34

Previous discussions: • https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25167928 (21 November 2020, 82 comments) • https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22681270 (25 March 2020, 91 comments) —⁂— > No class names, no frameworks, just semantic HTML and you're done. The trouble with this claim is that MVP.css abuses semantic HTML badly, using completely inappropriate elements all over the place (e.g. aside for cards, and b/strong/i…

[deleted]

Re: MVP.css – Minimalist stylesheet for HTML elements

#50

Post by bambataa »

jiggywiggy wrote: post #42
chrismorgan wrote: post #34

Previous discussions: • https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25167928 (21 November 2020, 82 comments) • https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22681270 (25 March 2020, 91 comments) —⁂— > No class names, no frameworks, just semantic HTML and you're done. The trouble with this claim is that MVP.css abuses semantic HTML badly, using completely inappropriate elements all over the place (e.g. aside for cards, and b/strong/i…

Html semantics is really for purists. Besides a few accessibility things to be aware of, like clicks and tabs for example. The rest has zero impact on the browser and user experience. It was a nice idea but never got off the ground precisely because most of them hardly had any real difference from a simple div.

I never knew why semantic HTML stuck so closely to the print metaphor and didn’t better reflect how websites are used. It always seemed to involve shoehorning an interactive website design into print concepts, so losing much of the meaning anyway.
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