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Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos

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Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos

#101

Post by kelnos »

kragen wrote: post #75
delecti wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've mostly given up being pedantic about the difference between PT, PDT, and PST. Most people mean "PT" when talking about the time that work meetings are scheduled, but they say "PST" basically year-round, despite it being PDT more often than PST.

It's not a pedantic difference; if you calculate the time as PST when it's PDT or vice versa you'll be an hour off. Holding a meeting an hour early or attending it an hour late can have serious consequences.

One way to look at pedantry is that it's when someone emphasizes technical correctness, even when another person's actual intent is understood.

If it's the middle of July, and someone in California sets up a meeting with someone in New York, but tells them "9am PST", it would be understood to actually mean "PT" or "PDT". I suspect only certain kinds of neurodivergent people would show up for the meeting an hour off. And hopefully someone who genuinely thought PST was the intention would ask for clarification. Most people, though, who would bring it up do so just for reasons of pedantry, not because they're actually confused.

Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos

#102

Post by [deleted] »

mike-the-mikado wrote: post #79
rmujica wrote: post #11

Chilean here. Unfortunately our governments have had the bad habit of changing the date DST starts on every two-three years, and that wreaks havoc everywhere in the country. We are kind of used to having a couple of days where we assume everyone will run an hour late because of this. I just hosted some Peruvian friends this week and were amazed at the kind of power the government wields just by having the ability to…

For comparison, it looks as if Punta Arenas ("the most southerly city in Chile" according to Wikipedia) is about 53 degrees south. 53 degrees north puts you around Nottingham, England (or a little north of Berlin).

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos

#103

Post by kelnos »

pokerhobo wrote: post #99
xeromal wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same for California as well

WA, OR, and CA have all passed state laws to stay on DST. Waiting on federal govt to allow it.

Oh, CA actually did pass it? I thought it was still pending, and WA and OR were waiting on us. Did a quick search, and I don't see anything more recent than this past April, when it was not yet fully passed.

There's also the federal-level Sunshine Protection Act[0], which the Senate has passed, but annoyingly the House put it on hold back in March right after receiving it, and hasn't acted on it. Lame.

[0] https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/623...

Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos

#104

Post by kelnos »

shireboy wrote: post #50

Speaking of, are we supposed to be doing anything about this yet, or should we just wait til 30 days before? https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/623

My assumption is that it'll eventually get revived in the House sometime next year, but they will -- correctly -- decide that November 2023 will be too soon after it becomes law, will change the text to specify some date in 2024, but then it'll have to go back to the Senate, where it will get held up for dumb procedural (or political) reasons, and then we'll just repeat the same thing over and over.

Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos

#105

Post by motohagiography »

ReactiveJelly wrote: post #62
amelius wrote: post #10

I like this chaos-monkey approach to politics, and we should do it more often. Now let me slide this handle that increases taxes on HFT and see what happens.

Hell, increase tax on all trading. Most people don't need to be gambling day-to-day on equities

Your pension, sovereign wealth, ability to pay down sovereign debt for social programs, purchasing power and bank balances all depend on growth that is at a higher rate than inflation. This requires portfolio rebalancing, and investing all that fiat currency collected in taxes and other means in productive assets. To say that trading requires higher taxes is like seeing an 18 wheel transport truck shipping food and thinking that it would be more equitable if you took off some of its wheels. Robbing financial firms "because that's where the money is," is as net-economically productive and at the same level of parochial banditry as seizing truck tires. There may be a fundamental economic principle that being stupid is expensive, and thinking governments have a revenue problem should at least give one pause.

Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos

#106

Post by adjagu »

bigmattystyles wrote: post #93
avip wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samoa also famously skipped the 2011-12-30. Maybe "famously among software developers" is more on-point.

Was this to move to the other side of the dateline or something?

Yes.

The time change, officially decided in June, is meant to align Samoa with its Asian trading partners; it moves the islands’ work days further from the United States, which dominated its economy in the past. [0]

[0]: https://web.archive.org/web/20220809080548/https://www.nytim...

Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos

#107

Post by spoonjim »

edbaskerville wrote: post #33

Not the worst example I've heard. In 2016 the Haitian president canceled daylight savings by decree two days before the changeover. I was flying out of the country the morning after the change, and had a really hard time explaining to airline customer service (who hadn't gotten the memo) what exactly the problem was. "When does my flight leave?" "At the scheduled time." "According to what clock?" "Huh?" I just showed…

Somewhat saved by the fact that the world pretty doesn’t pay much attention to what does or doesn’t happen in Haiti

Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos

#108

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

elashri wrote: post #89
petre wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Why would they change for Ramadan? the fasting times are determined by sun rise and set. It is not going to change and prayer times wouldn't be affected ( except the numerical shift of time only). The second part about arab world are not correct through. I grew up in Egypt which used to have daylight saving change but this ceased to happen from 2011 I think.

Looks like fasting in public during Ramadan is mandated by law in Morocco from 9am - 3pm. Rather than change this law, they changed the clocks during Ramadan so people could legally eat an hour earlier in the evening.

Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos

#109

Post by userbinator »

kelnos wrote: post #100
rmujica wrote: post #11

Chilean here. Unfortunately our governments have had the bad habit of changing the date DST starts on every two-three years, and that wreaks havoc everywhere in the country. We are kind of used to having a couple of days where we assume everyone will run an hour late because of this. I just hosted some Peruvian friends this week and were amazed at the kind of power the government wields just by having the ability to…

> amazed at the kind of power the government wields just by having the ability to change our timezone. Who else would have that power, though? Every government has the power to set the time within their own borders.

Not if everyone uses mean solar time... or just chooses something like GMT.

Re: Tell HN: Sudden Chile daylight savings time rules change causes chaos

#110

Post by firecall »

spiffytech wrote: post #20

This kind of thing is why it's important to store user-specified future dates as local time + IANA zone name. If a user wants a calendar event at 9am, they probably still mean 9am after accounting for time zone or DST changes. Storing dates as UTC is appropriate for dates in the past, or future dates that a user will never expect to happen at a certain wall-clock time. (An IANA zone name is something like America/New…

This is why I insist on calendar invites for all my meetings!

People easily forget that others in a meeting loop are in different time zones.

Not so bad in parts Europe or the UK, but for those of us in countries with multiple TZs like the US and Australia, it’s a persistent problem!

Especially for those junior members who are new to the group video conferencing game!

Conveying TimeZones in software is also a UX issue I’ve found! People don’t really understand LOL

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