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Atkinson Hyperlegible Font

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Re: Atkinson Hyperlegible Font

#171

Post by NonNefarious »

GuB-42 wrote: post #136

With a few tweaks (monospaced variant), it could make a great coding font. Coding fonts have essentially the same goal: make similar looking characters different: 1liI|, 0O, etc... Code naturally strains our visual acuity: we want to see as much as possible, it means that we may use a smaller font size than we would find comfortable reading text with. Single letter, punctuation, etc... can be really important, in reg…

No font should lack crossbars on the capital "i." That's just straight-up dumb. Nice to see that the font in question doesn't suffer from that mistake.

Failure to distinguish O from 0 ranks pretty high on the "don't" list as well.

Re: Atkinson Hyperlegible Font

#172

Post by Razengan »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #17

Although the font did really try to nail its goal, I think Iosevka really nailed it. On top of that, somebody took some of what Atkinson did with their font, and applied it to Iosevka, using its insanely powerful ability to be customized wildly, to produce http://thedarnedestthing.com/iosevka%20hyperlegible

Umm that website is barely legible, let alone hyper. Small, thin, spindly, faint, what the hell? (On Safari Ventura)

Re: Atkinson Hyperlegible Font

#173

Post by gnicholas »

NelsonMinar wrote: post #27

I'm uncomfortable with people publishing work like this without studies to back up whether they work for their intended audience. I'm sure the Braille Institute is expert in needs of low vision readers. And the design certainly looks promising. But AFAICT no one has studied whether this font is actually more readable. https://www.maxkohler.com/notes/2021-02-16-atkinson-hyperrea... The mess with the popular-but-not-ef…

I work in this area and it's true that OD hasn't fared well in various studies, but there are some people who swear by it. When it comes to matters of cognition and perception, it's hard to say what does or does not actually make a difference for people, and what evidence should be accepted.

After enough people asked for an OD option in my browser extension (which is used heavily in the dyslexia, ADHD, and vision impaired communities, as well as by other readers), we decided to offer it. I know the science behind it is not stunning, but who am I to tell people that the thing they think helps them read does not actually help them read? Even if they read more slowly with OD than without (something I'm not sure is true for people who choose to use OD), it's possible that one might enjoy reading more with OD even if it doesn't improve reading speed.

I wholeheartedly agree with your point about companies wanting to check the box on accessibility by offering OD, and it's unfortunate more companies don't do more.

Re: Atkinson Hyperlegible Font

#174

Post by renewedrebecca »

verall wrote: post #147
Zak wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious who would get the tip in this scenario. The sushi chef? Ok, I guess. The restaurant owner? I'm going with 0%. The robot? Maybe if it can pass a Turing test.

> The sushi chef? Yes, and most likely split with other cooks, host/hostess, and waitstaff for people that refuse to use the iPad. > The restaurant owner? Illegal in most states. What an iconoclast, refusing to tip hourly workers...

Only in the past few years has it been remotely expected that you'd have to tip someone who didn't actually take your order at a table and then walk your food out from the kitchen.

We've all been tricked into tipping in situations where, honestly, the management should be paying better. And yeah, I know that means that the cost of things will be higher on say the menu, but the real cost of a $20 dinner should be $24, why not just pay the $24 up front and raise the base wages to what they should be.

I'm pretty sure this is only an American lunacy too.

Re: Atkinson Hyperlegible Font

#175

Post by verall »

idiotsecant wrote: post #166
verall wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sushi chef? Yes, and most likely split with other cooks, host/hostess, and waitstaff for people that refuse to use the iPad. > The restaurant owner? Illegal in most states. What an iconoclast, refusing to tip hourly workers...

The social contract is currently approximately 'when I interact with human wait staff I am expected to add some cash to what the bill says on it' This is evident from, for example, the drive-thru example. There is no waiter / waitress, you just get your stuff and keep rolling. A tip jar is sometimes available but is rarely expected. If I never interact with a human and the restaurant expects a tip I think they should…

Except that in most areas, tips are legally required to go end workers (not management or ownership) and in jobs where tips are allowed, end workers make more than in service jobs where tips are not allowed on average. We're talking about America, I don't know why you would expect restaurant owners to pay workers a dime over the market clearing price. The chances service employees get employer provided health insurance is very low.

I don't know your financial situation and noone is forcing you to tip. But if you make, say, more than 3 times what the people servicing you make, and you choose not to tip, I think that's quite selfish.

Re: Atkinson Hyperlegible Font

#176

Post by fercircularbuf »

pen2l wrote: post #167
mtrpcic wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What OP was saying was a few tweaks could make a monospace variant, which would be a nice programming font. I don't think a monospace variant is available right now.

Ah yes, sorry. I think MonaLisa actually fits the bill: https://www.monolisa.dev/

For the life of me I just can't get over how different the g is from the rest of the letters. I find it incredibly distracting, so I can't use this font.

Re: Atkinson Hyperlegible Font

#177

Post by verall »

renewedrebecca wrote: post #174
verall wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sushi chef? Yes, and most likely split with other cooks, host/hostess, and waitstaff for people that refuse to use the iPad. > The restaurant owner? Illegal in most states. What an iconoclast, refusing to tip hourly workers...

Only in the past few years has it been remotely expected that you'd have to tip someone who didn't actually take your order at a table and then walk your food out from the kitchen. We've all been tricked into tipping in situations where, honestly, the management should be paying better. And yeah, I know that means that the cost of things will be higher on say the menu, but the real cost of a $20 dinner should be $24,…

Yeah but if you are in America where higher minimum wages or public healthcare are not happening anytime soon, maybe you should tip the hourly workers if you can afford it?

I think people just don't want to be confronted with the idea that the people servicing them make a pittance. It brings up uncomfortable feelings to have to decide how much a service employee "ought" to be paid, each time you eat at a restaurant.

Re: Atkinson Hyperlegible Font

#178

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

verall wrote: post #147
Zak wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious who would get the tip in this scenario. The sushi chef? Ok, I guess. The restaurant owner? I'm going with 0%. The robot? Maybe if it can pass a Turing test.

> The sushi chef? Yes, and most likely split with other cooks, host/hostess, and waitstaff for people that refuse to use the iPad. > The restaurant owner? Illegal in most states. What an iconoclast, refusing to tip hourly workers...

Those hourly workers are getting screwed by an employer who won't pay them what they're worth. It isn't my responsibility to feel shame and make up for their circumstances with an arbitrary tithe.

Re: Atkinson Hyperlegible Font

#179

Post by mcdonje »

Sunspark wrote: post #64

Reminder that fonts are subjective. This one is good for specific people, not everyone. I can't use it because I find it overly rounded with tics. An example of a font that is also meant to be legible, but is on the squarish side, is Tiresias Screenfont. Increased legibility does NOT mean "flow". Just because each character is more "distinct" does not mean that the whole word is able to be processed with ease. Import…

Preference has nothing to do with legibility.

Re: Atkinson Hyperlegible Font

#180

Post by pen2l »

fercircularbuf wrote: post #176
pen2l wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, sorry. I think MonaLisa actually fits the bill: https://www.monolisa.dev/

For the life of me I just can't get over how different the g is from the rest of the letters. I find it incredibly distracting, so I can't use this font.

Increasing differentiability (within reason and identifiability) is the point of fonts that are trying to increase legibility. g has the potential of being confused with 9, y, 0, etc. for folks with non-optimal sight.
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