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Ask HN: Help me pick a front-end framework

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Re: Ask HN: Help me pick a front-end framework

#151

Post by jefftk »

_gabe_ wrote: post #123
jefftk wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For prototyping and simple things, instead of mirroring my state in the DOM, I use the DOM to store state. Yes, it isn't quite as performant, but for this sort of work that doesn't usually matter.

> For prototyping and simple things, instead of mirroring my state in the DOM, I use the DOM to store state. I find it funny that people think mirroring the DOM will magically make your web app performant. I've visited plenty of React sites that are sluggish, bloated, load slowly and a pain to use. I've also visited plenty of plain ol' HTML/CSS/JS sites that are snappy, load quickly, and fast enough. No framework or…

I don't think it will magically make your code performant, but I've written things where using the DOM for state was pretty painfully inefficient. For example, multiple queries over a large amount of data where data is only represented as DOM notes. When working on small things and prototypes, though, this has been the exception, and I'm happy to mostly just use the DOM.

Re: Ask HN: Help me pick a front-end framework

#152

Post by cercatrova »

ravenstine wrote: post #106
chaos_emergent wrote: post #12

Sounds like you're in a similar place as me a year ago. Here's a list of tools that I'd use: - TypeScript for language. Gives you an insanely expressive type system that is a step up from Python duck typing (which you seem familiar with after perusing your GH). - React for framework. Frontend experts will shit on it for being non-performant or having a poor UX, but the community is massive and you'll have a ton of su…

I have to disagree with the Typescript part. Granted, it's not a bad suggestion, and there's a lot that's good about TS, but this isn't what I would consider a good place for it for a few reasons. TS, in my experience, has limited benefit when it comes to building a UI, and frontend JS is heavily married to UI programming. For guaranteeing UI functionality, writing years is a better use of one's time. What's more imp…

Sorry, I have to disagree. I used React before with JS and moved to TS, and the difference is just night and day. Forgot a prop? Wrong parameters in a function? Forgot to import a component? TS catches all these while JS doesn't.

What problems specifically do you have with TS on the frontend?

Re: Ask HN: Help me pick a front-end framework

#153

Post by codingdave »

Don't write your own text editor. Just go pick TinyMCE or CKEditor, use their comment plugins and change tracking for your annotations, and wrap it up in whatever basic CRUD you want to make it into your app.

I know the phrase "build vs. buy" annoys people, but your use case is quite well solved by existing tools, so buy the hard parts and build the easy (CRUD) parts. If you succeed with a product, you can always re-build the editors later when it makes sense. (If it ever does.)

Re: Ask HN: Help me pick a front-end framework

#155

Post by sgammon »

sgammon wrote: post #154

- Kotlin/JS - Kotlin serialization - Unified datamodel for frontend/backend - Interfaces across platforms Run it native (GraalVM) or JVM on the server, JS in the browser.

I honestly can't say enough good stuff about the Kotlin Multiplatform system. You can use your React. You can bring MUI, so it's pretty by default, and animations / UI are really smooth.

Because of Kotlin Serialization, you can speak Protobuf or JSON really easily with Kotlin data classes, across platform boundaries.

Kotlin Coroutines support means your implementation code can work on top of ListenableFuture on the JVM or Promise in the browser.

It's just great. Very likely to be maintained, and even improved greatly, over the next 10 years, as it is the basis of Jetbrains' own business.

Re: Ask HN: Help me pick a front-end framework

#156

Post by vladstudio »

everybodyknows wrote: post #145
vladstudio wrote: post #109

As in every post about front-end frameworks, I must mention HTMX and Unpoly: https://htmx.org/ https://unpoly.com/ To learn more about the concept, please take a look at Essays here: https://htmx.org/essays/

Is Unpoly alternative to HTMX? Or could the two be complementary?

they are alternatives, not complementary. Unpoly seems to include more features, layers are particularly impressive.

Re: Ask HN: Help me pick a front-end framework

#157

Post by yrgulation »

matthewwolfe wrote: post #140
yrgulation wrote: post #130

> Does anyone still write plain JS? Does anyone still use ts? I mean why would you use a scripted language transpiled to another language? I suspect there is a little experience with js hence the “fear” of dynamically typed vars. Just use vue and regular js. You’ll do just fine.

I think you’ll find, as evidenced by many popular libraries moving to TS, that TS is incredibly popular and increasingly becoming the defacto way to write for the web

Wouldnt harm pointing to stats. I might be wrong, but from experience, js is more than enough.

Re: Ask HN: Help me pick a front-end framework

#158

Post by MrRiddle »

ravenstine wrote: post #106
chaos_emergent wrote: post #12

Sounds like you're in a similar place as me a year ago. Here's a list of tools that I'd use: - TypeScript for language. Gives you an insanely expressive type system that is a step up from Python duck typing (which you seem familiar with after perusing your GH). - React for framework. Frontend experts will shit on it for being non-performant or having a poor UX, but the community is massive and you'll have a ton of su…

I have to disagree with the Typescript part. Granted, it's not a bad suggestion, and there's a lot that's good about TS, but this isn't what I would consider a good place for it for a few reasons. TS, in my experience, has limited benefit when it comes to building a UI, and frontend JS is heavily married to UI programming. For guaranteeing UI functionality, writing years is a better use of one's time. What's more imp…

There is not reason whatsoever to use JS over TS for UI. None of the things you said are true.

Re: Ask HN: Help me pick a front-end framework

#159

Post by temeritatis »

antonpirker wrote: post #93

"prototyping quickly" and "quick rampup" are for me a bit contradictory to "weak typing is a deal breaker". If I do not have to define types for everything, I am WAY faster with my prototypes. Also given that it is frontend land, I am not sure any of the tools now available will be available (and compatible) in 10 years. And because it is a side project I would not spend one second worrying about 10 years from now. H…

> guess it would be best to create a mini app (reading a list of things from a backend and render it and maybe delete something from the list) in two or three frontend frameworks and then choose the one that felt the nicest for you.

This is really good advice. I did that when evaluating react, vue and angular once upon a time. It was pretty clear to me after that what framework i would like to work with, despite what people said about each one at the time.

Re: Ask HN: Help me pick a front-end framework

#160

Post by tsp »

miedpo wrote: post #104

Vue2, Vue3, or React. React has a larger community but requires you to make a lot of decisions yourself. Also well integrated with Typescript. Vue2 is the only of these three that can be added to a webpage with a script tag. In that sense, it is a lot more simple than the other options. Still a pretty big community. Typescript integration is meh. Vue3 is Vue2 with better typescript integration but with tooling a bit…

I would not start any new projects on Vue 2, because you won’t get bugfixes in the future. Vue 3 or React.
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