Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#351

Post by daniel-cussen » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 7:34 PM UTC

wincy wrote: post #282

ErikVandeWater wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The news media are decidedly less pro-free speech than before. They could afford to promote free speech back when they had a monopoly on people's attention when it came to news. Now that Google can direct you to any number of independent sources, the news media feels threatened and wants to censor unapproved views so they can maintain the Overton Window. Noam Chomsky: "The smart way to keep people passive and obedien…

My wife is part of a focus group for public radio and she’s an avowed anarcho capitalist. She says things like “I suspect in 50 years the US will either not exist or be a much looser organization where the states rule” and the focus group woman says “that’s not going to happen!”, dismisses her out of hand, and refuses to write it down then moves on to the next person. I think at a certain point the Midwest will have…

Flyover Country Revolution. Flyover no more. Charge toll for overflying it. Why shouldn't private jets pay you up directly?

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#352

Post by remarkEon » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 7:36 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #338

remarkEon wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found the law that this (Canadian) article is referencing, and the words "gay" or "homosexual" don't even appear in the text. How does this prevent gay and lesbian teachers from discussing their partners? I see a paragraph that says instruction on sexuality and sexual orientation can't begin before the third grade which seems pretty reasonable. I didn't get that until I was in, I think, fifth grade. https://www.fls…

>I found the law that this (Canadian) article is referencing, and the words "gay" or "homosexual" don't even appear in the text. You could try search for other words or phrases like sexual orientation? You will find passages like this: >Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age approp…

Yes that's the paragraph I was referring to, and seems to be the only one that's relevant to what you're saying.

No one knows what the state standards are? They're all listed right here on their website[1]. Do you think your hypothetical conversation qualifies as "classroom instruction"? I don't think so.

[1] http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Displ...

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#353

Post by kelseyfrog » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 7:39 PM UTC

daniel-cussen wrote: post #351

wincy wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife is part of a focus group for public radio and she’s an avowed anarcho capitalist. She says things like “I suspect in 50 years the US will either not exist or be a much looser organization where the states rule” and the focus group woman says “that’s not going to happen!”, dismisses her out of hand, and refuses to write it down then moves on to the next person. I think at a certain point the Midwest will have…

Flyover Country Revolution. Flyover no more. Charge toll for overflying it. Why shouldn't private jets pay you up directly?

What are they going to do? SAM a few civilian flights?

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#354

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 7:39 PM UTC

benreesman wrote: post #340

WalterBright wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what your point is, but wealthy people are the source of investment capital. Less capital investment means a less prosperous economy, which negatively impacts about everybody.

Eh, I take your point but I think it’s at least debatable. Bell Labs via sanctioned, de-facto subsidized monopoly gave us everything from the transistor to the laser to Unix (you know the list, some readers might not). DoD/ARPA/DARPA funding was responsible for countless innovations, notable to this readership TCP/IP etc. (again, you know the list probably better than I do). Public funding for innovation demonstrably…

> Private investment capital has been demonstrably effective at growing that pie somewhat

Compare the success of the free market at raising the standard of living as opposed to other forms of government - by a lot.

> arguably been privatizing the resulting wealth

The only way that wealth would have grown is if that investment paid off in providing goods and services that the rest of the country preferred to buy, and they would only prefer spend their money on it if it made their lives better.

For example, people like to rag on Amazon, but Amazon's products and services has personally benefited me greatly. Shopping online saves me a ton of time, and wear and tear on my car.

As for equity portfolios, anyone in America can invest in equities. Etrade, Robinhood, etc., have done a great job democratizing investing. Want a piece of the action? Buy some equities.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#355

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 7:40 PM UTC

pstuart wrote: post #327

WalterBright wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what your point is, but wealthy people are the source of investment capital. Less capital investment means a less prosperous economy, which negatively impacts about everybody.

Sorry, but I wasn't attacking wealthy people, nor capitalism (but would be willing to poke at 'em for fun some other time). > that huge blocks of the rest of the country (and world) vote with their ballots or feet or both for very poorly-articulated policies and agendas My point is that the policies and agendas seem to be driven more on anger than on structural policies that will enrich their lives. I'm trying desper…

Politicians are well aware that people vote based on emotional appeals, and take full advantage of it.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#356

Post by slg » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

remarkEon wrote: post #345

slg wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The first looks like regulation on social media activities, which is well within the boundaries of government - state or otherwise. Perhaps ill-advised, but "how to regulate the digital town square" is a pretty open and fluid debate, no? I don't see anything in there that says "this kind of speech is banned". The law prevents private social media companies from adding a warning to posts for things like misinformatio…

It's interesting to me that implicit in your argument is that the corporation has some sort of "prime" speech right that users do not, but I understand how you could think that with regard to telling these companies they can't arbitrarily apply a speech to a user's speech (which is what adding a "misinformation" "warning" is doing) based on viewpoint. We already have tons of laws that restrict what businesses can do,…

>It's interesting to me that implicit in your argument is that the corporation has some sort of "prime" speech right that users do not,

No I'm not. Both have the same free speech. Except the corporations speech is being restricted by the government while the user's speech is being restricted by a private corporation. Only one of those is a First Amendment issue.

>We already have tons of laws that restrict what businesses can do, that would obviously restrict speech - like banning discrimination.

Discrimination is usually action and not speech. It is someone being fired, promoted, not hired, or just generally being treated differently. It generally takes for discriminatory speech to venture into harassment or a hostile environment before the government would step in.

>The law does not, in fact, dictate what private businesses can say. It gives them a list of things they cannot say

How are these not the same thing? Telling someone they can't do something is inherently telling them what they can do.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#357

Post by MiguelX413 » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

renlo wrote: post #298

dev-3892 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's interesting, 'saying X should be against the law' is precisely not what I'm hearing. instead I'm hearing 'there shouldn't be a law that requires a private entity to broadcast X' and 'you really shouldn't say X, and I would strongly suggest that you do not say X' and 'if you say X, there may not be legal consequences, but legal consequences are not the only kind of consequences' so i don't agree that 'the way i…

Yea! Why should phone companies be forced to carry conversations they don’t want you to have over their networks? Why should ISPs be forced to serve content they don’t want you to see? If you want to call the competitor of ATT to switch your service, well you need to do it using a competitor’s line, and, if you want to view competing plans over Comcast’s internet, well you need to do that at the library or on someone…

This but unironically and unsarcastically, the problem is the centralization of infrastructure itself.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#358

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 7:43 PM UTC

benreesman wrote: post #322

WalterBright wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most people are very smart Only half are above median intelligence. There's a difference between being smart and being well-educated. Wisdom is the combination of intelligence with knowledge. > coastal lefties are always befuddled Being well-educated in STEM is not indicative of being well-educated in history and/or economics, which most Americans seem very poorly educated in.

Haha fair point! It would have been better for me to say that the median person is very smart when it comes to understanding the best deal they are realistically going to get on the things they care about, and who they are going to get that deal from :)

I would reframe that to say that most people are far better judges of what is best for them personally than someone else ever could be. I don't mind the government making recommendations, but when they advance to forcing it on me, I object.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#359

Post by tialaramex » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 7:43 PM UTC

jscipione wrote: post #269

P0l83q4p1Hw3Ul wrote: post #33

Is Freedom of Speech important for a democratic society to survive? Right wing extremists would say yes. In fact, this is why they believe we shouldn't allow low cognitive ability immigrants into the country or let them vote.

Quoted post unavailable.

Hunter Biden wasn't a candididate in the 2020 US Presidential Election.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#360

Post by lynndotpy » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 7:43 PM UTC

notfed wrote: post #348

nyolfen wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd also be careful not to conflate "people who think free speech is a bad idea" and "people who want limitations on speech." sorry, 'free speech except for special pleading for the ideas i don't like' is not free speech.

This idealism doesn't always work in practice. The more public and popular a forum is, the more we need to weed out spam, scams, vandalism, and other kinds of malware/DoS.

To be clear, we are in agreement!

I'm making an argument that some limitations are worthwhile, and this doesn't make someone "against free speech" except with the most extreme absolutist interpretation.

EDIT: I misread the indentation on mobile-- I thought this was a direct reply to me. My mistake!