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Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

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Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#191

Post by wyager »

cortesoft wrote: post #105
Dig1t wrote: post #55

I grew up in the US being told that freedom of speech was a virtue, something that our country did very well and I always thought that it was a shared value. It's very surprising to me to see that change in such a short span, or possibly it was not as popular or widespread as I thought it was growing up and I just never noticed. Is it the internet that has caused this uptick in the number of people who think free spe…

I have not heard any group calling for free speech to be blocked. Who is calling for people to be arrested for what they say? Or to be blocked from being able to say it out loud? I think what you mean is that people are calling for internet platforms to kick out certain groups. This is in no way a call against freedom of speech. I am not sure why people suddenly believe that being for 'free speech' means that other p…

"Freedom of speech" does not mean "the cathedral is allowed to do anything short of putting you in jail to censor and punish your speech".

"Freedom of speech" does not just refer to a specific narrowly-defined legal doctrine.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#192

Post by dev-3892 »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #126
cortesoft wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not heard any group calling for free speech to be blocked. Who is calling for people to be arrested for what they say? Or to be blocked from being able to say it out loud? I think what you mean is that people are calling for internet platforms to kick out certain groups. This is in no way a call against freedom of speech. I am not sure why people suddenly believe that being for 'free speech' means that other p…

> I have not heard any group calling for free speech to be blocked. Who is calling for people to be arrested for what they say? The way it works is: "Sure I support free speech, but saying X is not free speech and saying it should be against the law because its offensive and might incite violence or something." If you object, they trot out Popper quotes about tolerating intolerance.

that's interesting, 'saying X should be against the law' is precisely not what I'm hearing.

instead I'm hearing 'there shouldn't be a law that requires a private entity to broadcast X' and 'you really shouldn't say X, and I would strongly suggest that you do not say X' and 'if you say X, there may not be legal consequences, but legal consequences are not the only kind of consequences'

so i don't agree that 'the way it works is ... saying it should be against the law'

I disagree, and in no way am i trotting out Popper quotes. I am questioning your willingness to actually listen to people.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#193

Post by akomtu »

Dig1t wrote: post #55

I grew up in the US being told that freedom of speech was a virtue, something that our country did very well and I always thought that it was a shared value. It's very surprising to me to see that change in such a short span, or possibly it was not as popular or widespread as I thought it was growing up and I just never noticed. Is it the internet that has caused this uptick in the number of people who think free spe…

The strong want freedom, the weak want safety, that's how I'd explain it. The internet has forced the weak onto the big arena where they have to defend their views, and unable to do that, they've demanded to put everyone into cages.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#194

Post by ratsmack »

citizenkeen wrote: post #127
rmatt2000 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should spend some time on a college campus. Shouting down speakers and deplatforming non-progressives is more common than one might think.

That is perfectly in line with freedom of speech. Is the government showing up and arresting the speakers? No? Then freedom of speech is intact.

Any collage or institution receiving government funding must not censor speech in any form, as they are government institutions via proxy. Also, in my opinion, all publicly traded companies should not be allowed to censor speech as they are essentially "owned" by share holders, not the management team.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#196

Post by faeriechangling »

hotpotamus wrote: post #37
faeriechangling wrote: post #5

Makes perfect sense to me. The free exchange of information is more appealing and less threatening when you have more information processing capability to begin with.

So how would you protect those with less information processing ability from the consequences of more free exchange of information?

There are actually things you can do such as making information more accessible, improving education, making ones ability to argue affect your resulting quality of life to a lesser degree through mechanisms like social welfare programs, etc.

You make people smarter, and you make the world easier to operate in if you're not smart.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#197

Post by dev-3892 »

jlawson wrote: post #171
citizenkeen wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is perfectly in line with freedom of speech. Is the government showing up and arresting the speakers? No? Then freedom of speech is intact.

This is like saying lynchings aren't oppression because it's not the government that did them.

"I can't say the n word in public and it's like a mob came to torture and kill me"

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#198

Post by cies »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #126
cortesoft wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not heard any group calling for free speech to be blocked. Who is calling for people to be arrested for what they say? Or to be blocked from being able to say it out loud? I think what you mean is that people are calling for internet platforms to kick out certain groups. This is in no way a call against freedom of speech. I am not sure why people suddenly believe that being for 'free speech' means that other p…

> I have not heard any group calling for free speech to be blocked. Who is calling for people to be arrested for what they say? The way it works is: "Sure I support free speech, but saying X is not free speech and saying it should be against the law because its offensive and might incite violence or something." If you object, they trot out Popper quotes about tolerating intolerance.

> they trot out Popper quotes about tolerating intolerance.

Yup, that's me. What's wrong with that according to you?

If your expression is promoting violence, especially violence against a vulnerable group (children, minorities, I'd say even animals), I'm okay with drawing up laws against such things. Thereby reducing freedom of expression.

Advertising for instance. If every building/land owner or municipality could put ads on 'm promoting drinking and smoking, that'd be bad for kids. Limiting that would reduce freedom of expression right?

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#199

Post by causality0 »

d23 wrote: post #166
causality0 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not heard any group calling for free speech to be blocked. Who is calling for people to be arrested for what they say? Or to be blocked from being able to say it out loud? I think you'll find a significant portion of the HN userbase supports the idea of the police arresting people for saying racist things on the internet. Mostly Europeans who live in places where that's already the law, but Americans as well.…

> I think you'll find a significant portion of the HN userbase supports the idea of the police arresting people for saying racist things on the internet. I genuinely can't wrap my head around how someone could possibly think this is true.

You can do a search for "hate speech" in the HN archive and find plenty of examples. Going down the first page of results, it's about half supporting hate speech as free speech and half against, although the supporting comments have much higher scores. You could make the argument those people think something should be illegal without thinking you should be arrested for doing it, but that's calling them a pack of ignoramuses who don't understand how laws work.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#200

Post by kzrdude »

Dig1t wrote: post #55

I grew up in the US being told that freedom of speech was a virtue, something that our country did very well and I always thought that it was a shared value. It's very surprising to me to see that change in such a short span, or possibly it was not as popular or widespread as I thought it was growing up and I just never noticed. Is it the internet that has caused this uptick in the number of people who think free spe…

I always think there needs to be a discussion about what "free" means. And just like for markets, what kind of regulation needs to be removed or added to meet the "freedom" goals?

Taking away some rights for one person might give space for another, and it's a balance.

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