Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#111

Post by ErikVandeWater » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

Dig1t wrote: post #55

I grew up in the US being told that freedom of speech was a virtue, something that our country did very well and I always thought that it was a shared value. It's very surprising to me to see that change in such a short span, or possibly it was not as popular or widespread as I thought it was growing up and I just never noticed. Is it the internet that has caused this uptick in the number of people who think free spe…

The news media are decidedly less pro-free speech than before. They could afford to promote free speech back when they had a monopoly on people's attention when it came to news. Now that Google can direct you to any number of independent sources, the news media feels threatened and wants to censor unapproved views so they can maintain the Overton Window.

Noam Chomsky: "The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate."

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#112

Post by xenospn » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

rmatt2000 wrote: post #109

cortesoft wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not heard any group calling for free speech to be blocked. Who is calling for people to be arrested for what they say? Or to be blocked from being able to say it out loud? I think what you mean is that people are calling for internet platforms to kick out certain groups. This is in no way a call against freedom of speech. I am not sure why people suddenly believe that being for 'free speech' means that other p…

You should spend some time on a college campus. Shouting down speakers and deplatforming non-progressives is more common than one might think.

Maybe if they’d done so sooner we wouldn’t have had the KKK.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#113

Post by illuminerdy » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 5:08 PM UTC

Twistyfiasco wrote: post #61

illuminerdy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give some examples? Is it actually speech that's being restricted, or actions, or access to certain types of speech/content (e.g. age restrictions)?

Well, for awhile there was lots of talk about CRT. https://www.texastribune.org/2021/12/02/texas-critical-race-...

Well, it's already a well-established principle that, when you take taxpayer money from the government, the government gets to attach conditions to it as they see fit. That's not a violation of any individual rights.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#114

Post by coeneedell » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 5:08 PM UTC

rmatt2000 wrote: post #109

cortesoft wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not heard any group calling for free speech to be blocked. Who is calling for people to be arrested for what they say? Or to be blocked from being able to say it out loud? I think what you mean is that people are calling for internet platforms to kick out certain groups. This is in no way a call against freedom of speech. I am not sure why people suddenly believe that being for 'free speech' means that other p…

You should spend some time on a college campus. Shouting down speakers and deplatforming non-progressives is more common than one might think.

I don’t see how this is inconsistent with what they’re saying. These people are asking their colleges to not provide a platform, not that the speakers should not be allowed to speak anywhere.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#115

Post by jimbokun » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 5:08 PM UTC

marcopolo3333 wrote: post #98

naasking wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Forcing private entities to host speech they don't want to goes against what I define as freedom of speech. What if a private entity owns the town square?

Then build a town square that is publicly owned, we as society decided to wave our hands of the responsibility of making a publicly owned the internet for the convenience of allowing big tech do it for us. The solution is not force private companies to host speech. It either create a publicly owned town square on the internet or collectively stop valuing/using these platforms so much.

> It either create a publicly owned town square on the internet or collectively stop valuing/using these platforms so much.

Great. How do you intend to accomplish this, practically speaking?

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#116

Post by MarkMarine » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 5:08 PM UTC

marcopolo3333 wrote: post #78

Dig1t wrote: post #55

I grew up in the US being told that freedom of speech was a virtue, something that our country did very well and I always thought that it was a shared value. It's very surprising to me to see that change in such a short span, or possibly it was not as popular or widespread as I thought it was growing up and I just never noticed. Is it the internet that has caused this uptick in the number of people who think free spe…

It still is a virtue and a right in the US. Freedom of speech is not about giving every idea and every person and equal platform to spread their ideas. It's not about forcing others to host/spread ideas they disagree with. I think the internet has given people a warped sense about what freedom of speech is. We have no less freedom of speech now than we did before social media/internet.

100% Freedom of speech in the terms of the first amendment is the government not infringing on your speech (like, throwing you in jail for criticizing it)

It has zero to do with what you can say on twitter, or if the people you’re deciding to say something to band together and decide you’re an asshole who should be ignored or fired.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#117

Post by hotpotamus » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 5:08 PM UTC

OrvalWintermute wrote: post #103

hotpotamus wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/lawmakers-push-to-b... Don’t forget the 1619 Project.

The 1619 project has been widely lambasted as unhistorical political educating. https://www.city-journal.org/1619-project-conspiracy-theory

Ok. So it’s ok to restrict it?

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#118

Post by ModernMech » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 5:09 PM UTC

rmatt2000 wrote: post #109

cortesoft wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not heard any group calling for free speech to be blocked. Who is calling for people to be arrested for what they say? Or to be blocked from being able to say it out loud? I think what you mean is that people are calling for internet platforms to kick out certain groups. This is in no way a call against freedom of speech. I am not sure why people suddenly believe that being for 'free speech' means that other p…

You should spend some time on a college campus. Shouting down speakers and deplatforming non-progressives is more common than one might think.

Isn’t shouting an exercise of speech?

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#119

Post by illuminerdy » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 5:09 PM UTC

hotpotamus wrote: post #84

Twistyfiasco wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, for awhile there was lots of talk about CRT. https://www.texastribune.org/2021/12/02/texas-critical-race-...

https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/lawmakers-push-to-b... Don’t forget the 1619 Project.

On the contrary, we should all forget the "1619 Project".

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#120

Post by californiadreem » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 5:09 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #105

Dig1t wrote: post #55

I grew up in the US being told that freedom of speech was a virtue, something that our country did very well and I always thought that it was a shared value. It's very surprising to me to see that change in such a short span, or possibly it was not as popular or widespread as I thought it was growing up and I just never noticed. Is it the internet that has caused this uptick in the number of people who think free spe…

I have not heard any group calling for free speech to be blocked. Who is calling for people to be arrested for what they say? Or to be blocked from being able to say it out loud? I think what you mean is that people are calling for internet platforms to kick out certain groups. This is in no way a call against freedom of speech. I am not sure why people suddenly believe that being for 'free speech' means that other p…

We've always been at war with Net Neutrality.

"The ability to organize grassroots movements, whether locally or across the globe, is made possible by an open Internet. Since its creation, the Internet has become the world’s megaphone for free speech, protected by the principles of Net Neutrality, which require internet service providers (ISPs) to give everyone equal access to everything you use the internet for -- email, watching videos, listening to music, or signing petitions on Change.org.

Without Net Neutrality, ISPs can choose what you see online, favoring some sources or blocking others. For example, if someone launched a petition on Change.org against a company like Verizon, Net Neutrality prevents Verizon from blocking or slowing their customers’ access to our site."