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Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

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Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#101

Post by throwawayacc2 »

wpietri wrote: post #52
OrangeMonkey wrote: post #3

There appears to be a recent shift on HackerNews no longer support freedom of speech. I don't know that its just HackerNews either - it seems like its 'internet residents no longer support freedom of speech.' I'm not sure how to interpret this.

I can't speak to all of HN, but over the years I've gone from a free speech absolutist to seeing rights as balanced against one another. And also to consider what motivates me to be for free speech. For example, one reason I think free speech is vital is that I want everybody to have a say. Another is that think society works best when we hear from a wide variety of perspectives. However, there are some people who us…

[flagged]

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#102

Post by jimbokun »

marcopolo3333 wrote: post #78
Dig1t wrote: post #55

I grew up in the US being told that freedom of speech was a virtue, something that our country did very well and I always thought that it was a shared value. It's very surprising to me to see that change in such a short span, or possibly it was not as popular or widespread as I thought it was growing up and I just never noticed. Is it the internet that has caused this uptick in the number of people who think free spe…

It still is a virtue and a right in the US. Freedom of speech is not about giving every idea and every person and equal platform to spread their ideas. It's not about forcing others to host/spread ideas they disagree with. I think the internet has given people a warped sense about what freedom of speech is. We have no less freedom of speech now than we did before social media/internet.

In practice, this means a small number of tech companies having final say over what ideas do or don't get spread.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#103

Post by OrvalWintermute »

hotpotamus wrote: post #84
Twistyfiasco wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, for awhile there was lots of talk about CRT. https://www.texastribune.org/2021/12/02/texas-critical-race-...

https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/lawmakers-push-to-b... Don’t forget the 1619 Project.

The 1619 project has been widely lambasted as unhistorical political educating.

https://www.city-journal.org/1619-project-conspiracy-theory

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#104

Post by marcopolo3333 »

Xeoncross wrote: post #95
marcopolo3333 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still is a virtue and a right in the US. Freedom of speech is not about giving every idea and every person and equal platform to spread their ideas. It's not about forcing others to host/spread ideas they disagree with. I think the internet has given people a warped sense about what freedom of speech is. We have no less freedom of speech now than we did before social media/internet.

On a related note, litigation has increased. If you do express an opinion that isn't supported by pop culture then you are threatened with serious economic impacts and civil action to a greater extent than what I remember pre-internet. Then again, less people knew you held some alternative view back then. Nowadays it's popular to shout across all the media so everyone in the US knows about that kooky view the old guy…

I would offer that the solution to increased litigation is reforming our civil courts to prevent their abuses.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#105

Post by cortesoft »

Dig1t wrote: post #55

I grew up in the US being told that freedom of speech was a virtue, something that our country did very well and I always thought that it was a shared value. It's very surprising to me to see that change in such a short span, or possibly it was not as popular or widespread as I thought it was growing up and I just never noticed. Is it the internet that has caused this uptick in the number of people who think free spe…

I have not heard any group calling for free speech to be blocked. Who is calling for people to be arrested for what they say? Or to be blocked from being able to say it out loud?

I think what you mean is that people are calling for internet platforms to kick out certain groups. This is in no way a call against freedom of speech.

I am not sure why people suddenly believe that being for 'free speech' means that other people have to provide private infrastructure for those people to spread their speech.

Did people complain that newspapers wouldn't allow the KKK to print opinion essays whenever they wanted? Did they get upset when a convention hall wouldn't let certain groups rent out their space?

Free Speech was never about requiring private citizens to provide a platform for any speech someone wanted to make. It is about not using the law to stop the speech. That belief is still strong in the United States.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#107

Post by [deleted] »

marcopolo3333 wrote: post #78
Dig1t wrote: post #55

I grew up in the US being told that freedom of speech was a virtue, something that our country did very well and I always thought that it was a shared value. It's very surprising to me to see that change in such a short span, or possibly it was not as popular or widespread as I thought it was growing up and I just never noticed. Is it the internet that has caused this uptick in the number of people who think free spe…

It still is a virtue and a right in the US. Freedom of speech is not about giving every idea and every person and equal platform to spread their ideas. It's not about forcing others to host/spread ideas they disagree with. I think the internet has given people a warped sense about what freedom of speech is. We have no less freedom of speech now than we did before social media/internet.

[deleted]

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#108

Post by naasking »

wpietri wrote: post #52
OrangeMonkey wrote: post #3

There appears to be a recent shift on HackerNews no longer support freedom of speech. I don't know that its just HackerNews either - it seems like its 'internet residents no longer support freedom of speech.' I'm not sure how to interpret this.

I can't speak to all of HN, but over the years I've gone from a free speech absolutist to seeing rights as balanced against one another. And also to consider what motivates me to be for free speech. For example, one reason I think free speech is vital is that I want everybody to have a say. Another is that think society works best when we hear from a wide variety of perspectives. However, there are some people who us…

> Note, for example, the way that Kiwi Farms was waving the free speech banner. You'll see the same thing being done by people who advocate for exterminating Jews and returning Black people to slavery.

You fight bad ideas with better ideas. The ACLU used to champion free speech in precisely this way before the internet, as they fought for the rights of Nazis to hold marches.

For Kiwi Farms specifically, this is a law enforcement failure. If speech transitions into real world action that's what the police are there for. Speech by itself is not really problematic, actions are. I think the past few years have shown that law enforcement is a dismal failure at the moment (Uvalde, George Floyd, etc.), but that's not a justification to restrict speech, that's a justification for justice reform.

> In practice, a platform like Twitter has to choose between hosting abusive Nazis and hosting the people who the Nazis would try to drive off the platform.

That's a false choice.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#109

Post by rmatt2000 »

cortesoft wrote: post #105
Dig1t wrote: post #55

I grew up in the US being told that freedom of speech was a virtue, something that our country did very well and I always thought that it was a shared value. It's very surprising to me to see that change in such a short span, or possibly it was not as popular or widespread as I thought it was growing up and I just never noticed. Is it the internet that has caused this uptick in the number of people who think free spe…

I have not heard any group calling for free speech to be blocked. Who is calling for people to be arrested for what they say? Or to be blocked from being able to say it out loud? I think what you mean is that people are calling for internet platforms to kick out certain groups. This is in no way a call against freedom of speech. I am not sure why people suddenly believe that being for 'free speech' means that other p…

You should spend some time on a college campus. Shouting down speakers and deplatforming non-progressives is more common than one might think.

Re: Cognitive ability is related to supporting freedom of speech (2020)

#110

Post by marcopolo3333 »

jimbokun wrote: post #102
marcopolo3333 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still is a virtue and a right in the US. Freedom of speech is not about giving every idea and every person and equal platform to spread their ideas. It's not about forcing others to host/spread ideas they disagree with. I think the internet has given people a warped sense about what freedom of speech is. We have no less freedom of speech now than we did before social media/internet.

In practice, this means a small number of tech companies having final say over what ideas do or don't get spread.

And? before the internet those ideas didn't spread anyways or they were spread by a small number of media companies. Pre-internet was not this mythical golden age of an exchange of ideas. On the whole of it these small number of tech companies are actually pretty hands off when compared to how legacy media operates. In fact now fringe/"banned" ideas spread faster.
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