Apparently I'm a dolt. I can't seem to find the source code for the games. Any pointers?
Game Jam 2 Results
141–150 of 193 posts
Re: Game Jam 2 Results
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
It can just be limiting in terms of ergonomics. Like I've implemented a couple of ECS's and what you want to do is dispatch a bunch of threads over big swaths of structured memory. One of the main things the borrow checker doesn't want you to do is use the same memory on multiple threads. You can do that in rust, and people have, but you have to put a lot of effort into convincing the borrow checker that what you're…
> So basically rust imposes a lot of limitations on how you can structure your program relative to something like Zig or C. I don't see it imposing that much of a limit. If there is code you know is correct and Rust can't reason about it, do it in unsafe block. And ECS is not just possible in Rust, but due to mutability guarantees you can make your ECS schedule systems in such way to maximize multi threading. See Bev…
Using unsafe blocks would fall into the category of "sidestepping the borrow checker". Again, it's possible to do it, but if you're going to do everything in unsafe rust why not just use an unsafe language in the first place?
And how does rust allow you to "maximize multi-threading" over what's possible in other languages? Anything you can express in rust can be expressed in C or Zig as well. The only difference is the implementation you reach will come with static guarantees about memory ownership (so long as you don't use unsafe). So the set of all rust programs is a essentially a subset of all C/Zig programs.
Re: Game Jam 2 Results
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am seriously mind-blown that you've never encountered this problem in Go. You're trying something, and you see an error, you comment out a function and replace it with a print statement. And now suddenly you have to comment out a bunch of things up to the import statement just to fucking test out a simple hypothesis.
Possibly because the IDE helps with that. Including adding and removing import statements. I feel like this complaint is more theoretical than something felt by people using Go day to day.
People on the internet contradicts you, You remind me of the Apple fanboys and the keyboard issue , people complain that they keyboard has problems and the fanboys respond with "is working with me, you are using it wrong, you are stupid and probably eat at your keyboard, you broke it yourself"
https://www.google.com/search?q=go+lang++compiler+warnings+u...
All those people reporting the issue are not Go developers? Or maybe are not true Go developers, just the other kind, the ones that want generic and nice things.
But yeah, I am not a Go dev, I used linters and I would hate having to be forced to clear all the unused warnings before I can test the code.
Re: Game Jam 2 Results
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I didn't claim that it is. I said it has a good memory safety story, i.e. mechanisms that soundly guarantee some kinds of memory safety, as well as a design that makes it relatively easy to help write correct programs. Zig doesn't have mechanisms that soundly guarantee some kinds of memory safety. It's not spacially memory safe: extern unions, sentinel-terminated pointers, and multi-element pointers break it. At be…
> Zig doesn't have mechanisms that soundly guarantee some kinds of memory safety. It does. > It's not spacially memory safe: extern unions, sentinel-terminated pointers, and multi-element pointers break it. We've been through that. Those are syntactically delineated unsafe features for C/hardware interop. Rust has them, too. > This isn't a particularly interesting property because it's trivially true for any language…
> a language that's struggling to get 1% of the market is a fringe view
This is an extremely strange argument. How much market share do you think C has in 2022?
You seem to massively underappreciate the dominance of the web and the hegemony of languages like JavaScript and PHP. System languages are a very tiny niche and there's much less changes there than in other domains.
Rust has obviously way less than 1% market share but it's still extremely successful in the niche it's targeting. (And btw, we're talking about the only niche that still hasn't embraced memory safety, mainly because there was no acceptable tools for that meeting their requirements)
Re: Game Jam 2 Results
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Zig doesn't have mechanisms that soundly guarantee some kinds of memory safety. It does. > It's not spacially memory safe: extern unions, sentinel-terminated pointers, and multi-element pointers break it. We've been through that. Those are syntactically delineated unsafe features for C/hardware interop. Rust has them, too. > This isn't a particularly interesting property because it's trivially true for any language…
> a language that's struggling to get 1% of the market is a fringe view This is an extremely strange argument. How much market share do you think C has in 2022? You seem to massively underappreciate the dominance of the web and the hegemony of languages like JavaScript and PHP. System languages are a very tiny niche and there's much less changes there than in other domains. Rust has obviously way less than 1% market…
> Rust has obviously way less than 1% market share but it's still extremely successful in the niche it's targeting
Extremely successful? It's not even mediocre. A more realistic description of its current position in its niche domain might be "still hanging in there", "not yet completely written off" or "not out of the race but waiting for a miracle."
Rust is barely at 5% of the low-level market. Its performance in its target domain is so abysmal at over seven years old that some who'd want to try it don't because its future looks so uncertain. For comparison, almost every programming language reached or at least neared its all-time peak popularity around age 10. Even if things improve we're looking at a peak of 20% of its target niche before the novelty wears off and other languages join the fray. It needs to double its market share in the next couple of years not to be "extremely successful" but just to stay relevant.
Re: Game Jam 2 Results
#146The 3D one was really impressive.
Re: Game Jam 2 Results
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So basically rust imposes a lot of limitations on how you can structure your program relative to something like Zig or C. I don't see it imposing that much of a limit. If there is code you know is correct and Rust can't reason about it, do it in unsafe block. And ECS is not just possible in Rust, but due to mutability guarantees you can make your ECS schedule systems in such way to maximize multi threading. See Bev…
Using unsafe blocks would fall into the category of "sidestepping the borrow checker". Again, it's possible to do it, but if you're going to do everything in unsafe rust why not just use an unsafe language in the first place? And how does rust allow you to "maximize multi-threading" over what's possible in other languages? Anything you can express in rust can be expressed in C or Zig as well. The only difference is t…
> Using unsafe blocks would fall into the category of "sidestepping the borrow checker".
I kinda want to end this assumption. Unsafe only allows few things.
- access to raw pointers.
- implement or accessing unsafe functions (e.g. C FFI)
- implementing or accessing unsafe trait
- access to unsafe union
- mutate global variables.
You can't bypass borrow checker, and you wouldn't do everything in unsafe. If you write everything in unsafe you are definitely doing stuff very, very wrong.
Rust unsafe is a surgeon's equivalent of a scar. Some scars need to happen, and you can tuck them out of sight if you are clever. However if after an operation you look like a map of scars, it means your surgeon is lacking.
No language can prevent you from abusing it, but in Rust it's apparent when you do it.
> And how does rust allow you to "maximize multi-threading" over what's possible in other languages?
Bevy newbie here so take it with a grain of salt. Because Bevy knows when and how Resources are related it systems can freely run in parallel if two resources are unrelated and mutable, or related and immutable.
> Anything you can express in rust can be expressed in C or Zig as well.
Point of a good programming languagues isn't to enable writting programs that can do anything but to aid programmers in writing error-free programs.
Why do you think we use punctuation and spaces? I remember a talk[1] where he noted spaces/punctuation became a thing only when Christian monks started transcribing written words, as a way of error correction. This was how written word looked before:
Withoutspacesitsveryeasytomakierrorsandnotnoticeitinfactdidyounoticeitwhenimadeabunchrightnowassumingthispartdidntcauseheadacheforyouineithercasewrongcodeinrustlooksjustaswrongasthisparagraph
[1] EDIT: Found the talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EANG8ZZbRs&t=1418s
Re: Game Jam 2 Results
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
> a language that's struggling to get 1% of the market is a fringe view This is an extremely strange argument. How much market share do you think C has in 2022? You seem to massively underappreciate the dominance of the web and the hegemony of languages like JavaScript and PHP. System languages are a very tiny niche and there's much less changes there than in other domains. Rust has obviously way less than 1% market…
> Rust has obviously way less than 1% market share but it's still extremely successful in the niche it's targeting Extremely successful ? It's not even mediocre. A more realistic description of its current position in its niche domain might be "still hanging in there", "not yet completely written off" or "not out of the race but waiting for a miracle." Rust is barely at 5% of the low-level market. Its performance in…
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Re: Game Jam 2 Results
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the issue is memory safety is reachable. Correctness is either extremely hard (proof program satisfied specifications) to nigh impossible (make sure all icon pointy things are aligned).
And yet there are programs out there that work well enough, but that's not a story PL theorists would tell you.
Saying work well enough isn't really reasurring.
To quote Douglas Crockford: "If you say it hardly happens, it means it happens".
Re: Game Jam 2 Results
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
> a language that's struggling to get 1% of the market is a fringe view This is an extremely strange argument. How much market share do you think C has in 2022? You seem to massively underappreciate the dominance of the web and the hegemony of languages like JavaScript and PHP. System languages are a very tiny niche and there's much less changes there than in other domains. Rust has obviously way less than 1% market…
> Rust has obviously way less than 1% market share but it's still extremely successful in the niche it's targeting Extremely successful ? It's not even mediocre. A more realistic description of its current position in its niche domain might be "still hanging in there", "not yet completely written off" or "not out of the race but waiting for a miracle." Rust is barely at 5% of the low-level market. Its performance in…
I hope you get the help you need and deserve.