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After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

nytimes.com

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Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#191

Post by prirun »

Ekaros wrote: post #167
Lazare wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. From wikipedia: > On Wednesday, November 9, 2016, an underage African-American Oberlin College student and Student Assistant Treasurer,[9] Jonathan Aladin (aka Elijah Aladin), attempted to purchase a bottle of wine using a fake identification card.[8] The store clerk, Allyn D. Gibson, a son and grandson of the owners,[6] rejected the fake ID. Gibson noticed that the student was concealing two other bottles of wi…

That whole scenario make me sad. And just show how broken the system is. Assault a person and get away with not spending years in prison. That if something is massive privilege... Disgusting.

It pisses me off that a person smoking weed and not harming anyone can be thrown in jail, fined for all kinds of things (court costs, etc), and there is no victim to show mercy on them like the store did for these 3 students behaving like thugs. Yet these thugs get off with an apology, a statement, and a promise.

I don't smoke weed, but we sure have our priorities wrong.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#192

Post by dmix »

crackercrews wrote: post #118
7402 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't sound right. It doesn't match up with what I know of FIRE. I couldn't find anything to suggest that FIRE opposed the verdict in my searches. Please try to find the link - I'd like to see it. I did find one document [0] that was a legal filing that references some FIRE documents discussing speech codes, but that was it. FIRE didn't sign it, and as far as I can tell FIRE had nothing to do with the filing s…

I tried searching again but failed. I think I probably heard a mention of it on a podcast since I can't find a link. Maybe the Reason Roundtable? I am 90% certain this was FIRE I'm recalling. I was caught off-guard because I generally agree with FIRE, and my first reaction was that this was an exception. It made me rethink about my reaction to the verdict. I can't think of another organization that fits this descript…

It does make sense that it targets a people’s speech though. Even if the circumstances are ridiculous.

This crosses into the territory of defamation though so it’s not merely their progressive political opinions being challenged by the courts.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#193

Post by emerged »

atdrummond wrote: post #55
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #43

> Carmen Twillie Ambar: archaic chase-and-detain policy regarding suspected shoplifters was the catalyst for the protests. If you witness a crime you can arrest the criminal. It's basic civics. Something you might find about in an institution of higher learning. Don't know if they have one of those in Oberlin.

If the individual involved hadn’t broken the phone of the worker, the chase never even would have occurred. The culpability being placed 100% on the bakery is illogical no matter how I look at it.

No post body was provided.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#194

Post by colinmhayes »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #60
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #43

> Carmen Twillie Ambar: archaic chase-and-detain policy regarding suspected shoplifters was the catalyst for the protests. If you witness a crime you can arrest the criminal. It's basic civics. Something you might find about in an institution of higher learning. Don't know if they have one of those in Oberlin.

Statements like “archaic chase-and-detain policy regarding suspected shoplifters was the catalyst for the protests” is why a lot of people think the left has lost their collective minds. They are making perpetrators into victims and blame the real victims for any bad consequences.

Really is unfortunate, both sides of the political spectrum suffer from this principal agent dilemma. The media finds the craziest instances of the ideology gone to far and everyone believes places like oberlin speak for the left as a whole.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#195

Post by colinmhayes »

viggity wrote: post #8

This case is so egregious, in a just world there would be a criminal case too. 2 members of the bakery family have died as Oberlin has dragged this out.

The family members dying isn't oberlin's fault. They're allowed to appeal.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#196

Post by rahimnathwani »

ck2 wrote: post #120

I'm still processing the $6.5 Million the lawyers made.

The hourly rate used to calculate the award for fees was under $300. This case could have gone either way. The lawyers took this case on contingency, i.e. no win no fee.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#197

Post by spaetzleesser »

colinmhayes wrote: post #194
spaetzleesser wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statements like “archaic chase-and-detain policy regarding suspected shoplifters was the catalyst for the protests” is why a lot of people think the left has lost their collective minds. They are making perpetrators into victims and blame the real victims for any bad consequences.

Really is unfortunate, both sides of the political spectrum suffer from this principal agent dilemma. The media finds the craziest instances of the ideology gone to far and everyone believes places like oberlin speak for the left as a whole.

When you look at the situation with shoplifters not being prosecuted in San Francisco I don’t think the perception is too far off. Here in Albuquerque it seems they also have given up on going after people who break into cars or steal them.

I totally agree that the “tough on crime” strategy doesn’t work. But the solution can’t be to let people get away with petty crimes or even make the perpetrators into victims. Law abiding citizens need to be protected.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#198

Post by jononomo »

tptacek wrote: post #190
jononomo wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, this guy was not a lower-income student -- he had attended a $50k/year private high school. Second, Oberlin did not believe that Gibson's racially profiled students. Third, the kids not only shoplifted, they then kicked and beat the fellow who tried to chase them and stop them from shoplifting.

I agree with your first statement. I disagree with your second. I agree with your third statement. None of this changes anything I said.

You are wrong to disagree with my second statement.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#199

Post by bruce511 »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #162
bruce511 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a strange reply. If the business is running at a loss (including legal fees) then yes that loss can be used to reduce the tax burden this year. But since the loss burden is 100% [1],and the tax burden say 50% this is worse, not better. Sure the 5 million accumulated loss means 2.5 million less tax, but it also means 5 million gone to cover the losses.. [1] losses are funded from somewhere, and those fund…

define “strange” - perhaps by identifying something in my statement that is factually incorrect? Or do you agree with the statement and wish the world was different somehow?

"strange" might be the wrong word.

I mean in the sense that it feels like you're suggesting that "offsetting expenses" makes it better. When it makes it worse. [1]. So in answering the question "is this taxable income" - the answer is "yes". If you wanted to qualify it more it would be more along the lines of "not just tax, there's likely a lot of other expenses incurred as well."

[1] Yes, it's better in the pure sense that there's "less tax", but overall there's more expenses than the tax that was saved.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#200

Post by tptacek »

rayiner wrote: post #179
tptacek wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people make stupid comments in the other ideological direction, I flag them too. This stuff is beneath you --- or, it used to be.

It’s “stupid” to suggest that hundreds of millions of other people might have a point in how they’ve structured their laws? Are you just upset because you think corporal punishment for theft should be outside the Overton window and you assume I agree and am just being flippant? (And I’m not sure what the “ideological direction” here is. I’m pretty sure right wing people don’t think sharia gets anything right.)

I'm not upset, but I flagged your comment because it was an unserious, low-effort attempt to provoke the thread, which is something you've been doing a lot lately.

I'm probably being too testy about this. There's been a pretty clear shift with your comments (people have emailed me about it out of the blue!) and it's been disappointing, in the sense that I have a rooting interest in people who contribute good stuff to HN continuing to do so, and not tearing the place down. But that's my problem, not yours.

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