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Widespread misperceptions of long-term attitude change

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Re: Widespread misperceptions of long-term attitude change

#151

Post by JabavuAdams »

exo-pla-net wrote: post #108
somenameforme wrote: post #84

There is a severe demographic problem with this study (among others). A current trend in the social sciences is using Amazon Mechanical Turk and Prolific to run surveys. These sites are based around paying people pennies to compete menial tasks (like complete surveys), and populated with large numbers of "professional" menial task executers. This study offered the big bucks of $1.50 - $2.25. There are two major probl…

The need for representative sampling is something understood by first year undergraduates on first exposure to the concept. What you've written is the reddit equivalent of criticizing a study with "correlation does not imply causation". Yeah, scientists are familiar with the idea, believe it or not. Scientists in fact go to great lengths to ensure their sampling is representative, and studies published in good journa…

Do you have any data or evidence to support your claim that workers on Mechanical Turk are a representative sample of Americans? This is an extraordinary claim, given the incentives of the platform. Think like a hacker, or a poor person in India or Nigeria.

Re: Widespread misperceptions of long-term attitude change

#152

Post by btilly »

dredmorbius wrote: post #58
btilly wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what you think happened under the Clinton era to cause the financial crash of 2009. Most of the immediate things, such as the housing boom driven by easy lending policies, happened under Bush. So I'd need a reference to support that idea. However I'll give you another one. Most people's impression is that Carter destroyed the economy and Reagan's deregulation saved the day. But actually the facts are a…

Not OP, but the Glass-Steagall Act was repealled in 1999, under then-president Bill Clinton, and is posited as a substantial contributor to the 2007-8 Global Financial Crisis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftermath_of_the_repeal_of_the... > https://web.archive.org/web/20111019192852/http://prospect.o... >

So there are things that happened under Clinton that have been posited as contributing to the financial crash, so the guy who was President for the last 8 years leading up to the crash must be blameless.

Yeah, not buying it. There are lots of things that happened under Bush that are also posited as contributing to the crash. And 8 years is more than long enough for Bush's policies to have contributed.

Re: Widespread misperceptions of long-term attitude change

#153

Post by mistermann »

andsoitis wrote: post #138
arkis22 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only minority worth protecting beyond reproach of politics are those afflicted with poverty. I have found both parties incompetent in this regard. 800k shacks with outlets in LA for the homeless. The complete dismissal of the responsibility we have as a society to rehabilitate people in the prison system. the absolute abandonment of native americans that ultimately lead to an institution of sexual abuse. Unions r…

> The only minority worth protecting beyond reproach of politics are those afflicted with poverty. I have found both parties incompetent in this regard. How do you think we, the people, can make a really meaningful impact to change this?

I think a secular/scientific version of some of the ideas contained within religions like Buddhism could move the needle substantially:

https://mindwithcare.com/buddha-teachings-part-one-four-nobl...

Re: Widespread misperceptions of long-term attitude change

#154

Post by tenebrisalietum »

paganel wrote: post #129
imgabe wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if you could get good survey data by disguising it as a Buzzfeed quiz on Facebook. Just make the title something like "Which Kardashian are you?", then ask whatever questions you want and randomly select a Kardashian at the end.

> quiz on Facebook The current FB audience is already comprised of those that are over 35-40 years of age. As a early 40s guy myself I couldn't care less who the Kardashians are (I know the Kim lady, there was also a younger lady that did a Pepsi commercial and some former man that transitioned into a lady, Jenner I think?), but, ignoring that (let's say you could target me with sports-related quizzes), the fact stil…

I don't think anyone under 35 years old cares who the Kardashians are either. I honestly can't figure out who does beyond people who are responsible for deciding what stories appear in various places.

Re: Widespread misperceptions of long-term attitude change

#155

Post by ryangittins »

somenameforme wrote: post #84

There is a severe demographic problem with this study (among others). A current trend in the social sciences is using Amazon Mechanical Turk and Prolific to run surveys. These sites are based around paying people pennies to compete menial tasks (like complete surveys), and populated with large numbers of "professional" menial task executers. This study offered the big bucks of $1.50 - $2.25. There are two major probl…

Maybe if American society valued science the same we we value justice, we could compel people to occasionally participate in surveys and studies the way we compel them to participate in jury duty.

We see the latter as a fact of life and occasional annoyance for a cause greater than ourselves. Maybe we should treat a contribution to science the same way. Many countries require some military service of young people—we could ask people to contribute in all sorts of ways.

Re: Widespread misperceptions of long-term attitude change

#156

Post by rr888 »

ryangittins wrote: post #155
somenameforme wrote: post #84

There is a severe demographic problem with this study (among others). A current trend in the social sciences is using Amazon Mechanical Turk and Prolific to run surveys. These sites are based around paying people pennies to compete menial tasks (like complete surveys), and populated with large numbers of "professional" menial task executers. This study offered the big bucks of $1.50 - $2.25. There are two major probl…

Maybe if American society valued science the same we we value justice, we could compel people to occasionally participate in surveys and studies the way we compel them to participate in jury duty. We see the latter as a fact of life and occasional annoyance for a cause greater than ourselves. Maybe we should treat a contribution to science the same way. Many countries require some military service of young people—we…

Maybe if social science was real science instead of quackery people would want to help.

Re: Widespread misperceptions of long-term attitude change

#157

Post by gpm »

ryangittins wrote: post #155
somenameforme wrote: post #84

There is a severe demographic problem with this study (among others). A current trend in the social sciences is using Amazon Mechanical Turk and Prolific to run surveys. These sites are based around paying people pennies to compete menial tasks (like complete surveys), and populated with large numbers of "professional" menial task executers. This study offered the big bucks of $1.50 - $2.25. There are two major probl…

Maybe if American society valued science the same we we value justice, we could compel people to occasionally participate in surveys and studies the way we compel them to participate in jury duty. We see the latter as a fact of life and occasional annoyance for a cause greater than ourselves. Maybe we should treat a contribution to science the same way. Many countries require some military service of young people—we…

If we didn't already have mandatory jury duty, I don't think there's a hope in hell that you could get a bill passed requiring it today. If you did manage to get a bill passed, I think the courts would almost certainly strike it down.

We have become much less keen on requiring people to work against their will. Jury duty is grandfathered in, but new things of that kind wouldn't be lightly accepted.

Re: Widespread misperceptions of long-term attitude change

#158

Post by ElevenLathe »

ryangittins wrote: post #155
somenameforme wrote: post #84

There is a severe demographic problem with this study (among others). A current trend in the social sciences is using Amazon Mechanical Turk and Prolific to run surveys. These sites are based around paying people pennies to compete menial tasks (like complete surveys), and populated with large numbers of "professional" menial task executers. This study offered the big bucks of $1.50 - $2.25. There are two major probl…

Maybe if American society valued science the same we we value justice, we could compel people to occasionally participate in surveys and studies the way we compel them to participate in jury duty. We see the latter as a fact of life and occasional annoyance for a cause greater than ourselves. Maybe we should treat a contribution to science the same way. Many countries require some military service of young people—we…

I don't know of anyone that considers jury duty an "annoyance for a cause greater than ourselves". Normal people know intuitively that it is a waste of time, that lawyers, cops, clerks, and judges are just running an extended grift on working people and the rest of society, and that nobody will be harmed by their lying their way out of having to miss work for 7 dollars a day.

Re: Widespread misperceptions of long-term attitude change

#159

Post by ryangittins »

ElevenLathe wrote: post #158
ryangittins wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if American society valued science the same we we value justice, we could compel people to occasionally participate in surveys and studies the way we compel them to participate in jury duty. We see the latter as a fact of life and occasional annoyance for a cause greater than ourselves. Maybe we should treat a contribution to science the same way. Many countries require some military service of young people—we…

I don't know of anyone that considers jury duty an "annoyance for a cause greater than ourselves". Normal people know intuitively that it is a waste of time, that lawyers, cops, clerks, and judges are just running an extended grift on working people and the rest of society, and that nobody will be harmed by their lying their way out of having to miss work for 7 dollars a day.

What's the alternative? Professional jurors?

Re: Widespread misperceptions of long-term attitude change

#160

Post by ryangittins »

gpm wrote: post #157
ryangittins wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if American society valued science the same we we value justice, we could compel people to occasionally participate in surveys and studies the way we compel them to participate in jury duty. We see the latter as a fact of life and occasional annoyance for a cause greater than ourselves. Maybe we should treat a contribution to science the same way. Many countries require some military service of young people—we…

If we didn't already have mandatory jury duty, I don't think there's a hope in hell that you could get a bill passed requiring it today. If you did manage to get a bill passed, I think the courts would almost certainly strike it down. We have become much less keen on requiring people to work against their will. Jury duty is grandfathered in, but new things of that kind wouldn't be lightly accepted.

This is true of a lot of things. Imagine if libraries didn't exist and someone got the bright idea for one today. It would never fly.
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