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After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

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Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#71

Quoted post unavailable.

I hired and worked with an Oberlin graduate. Great person. Talented engineer. What specifically puts you off their entire student body; past, present, and future?

Well, I just looked on Twitter and see many, many Oberlin grads lamenting the Gibson's judgement and claiming that "everyone always knew" Gibson's was "racist" without any hard facts.

Just one example: https://twitter.com/ejdickson/status/1566061809500622848

She's still calling people who pled guilty to shoplifting "alleged shoplifters." That's dishonest.

Let's just say I don't hold by that school's accreditation.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#72
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there is much more to the story. This is going to be one sided, but this is a faq from the plantiffs with plenty of examples of what the dean was doing; far far beyond just handing out flyers. https://www.lawlion.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/UPDATED-F...

Some more interesting context from your link: When the author anonymously interviewed students, he gathered the following responses: • “I totally have [taken things from a store downtown without paying for it]. I think I’ve stolen from Gibson’s twice. I took a packet of those noodles that come in boxes… It wasn’t expensive and I felt like it. I just preferred not paying for it, but I could have.” • A female student a…

They should do like Saudi Arabia and cut off their hands.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#74
post #56
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently, Oberlin's President sent out the following email which states their insurance will pay > Dear Obies, > Today, Oberlin College and Conservatory initiated payment in full of the $36.59 million judgment in the Gibson’s Bakery case, an amount that represents the awarded damages and interest owed. Please see the college’s public statement below. > While this outcome is a disappointment, our financial plans for…

> Like me, the majority of the campus was not here at the beginning of this matter in 2016. The buck stops with my predecessor. Delightful executive engineering of the slimiest sort. One gets paid to own the past at that level. Accepting the job requires due diligence on the past and being paid to own any uncertainty. That is one disgustingly cowardly sentence meriting immediate action by the board to throw this bum…

Can I ask why you’re so upset about something that apparently does not involve you at all?

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason police can detain people is because they are citizens. They don't have any special status that other Americans don't enjoy.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-qualified-immunity-and-what... You really think any random person can detain someone? Do you also think you can force someone to stop for speeding? You can arrest someone for smoking weed as an ordinary citizen? Do you think you can sleep with a prostitute and then arrest them? https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2017/03/20/c...

A police officer has better legal protections, and in practice can get away with a lot more.

But in theory, what they are supposed to be able to do is surprisingly similar.

On detaining a random person, quoting https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/citizen%27s_arrest, In general, the ability to perform a citizen’s arrest is the same for a regular person as it is for a police officer without a warrant.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is what punitive damages are - they are not required to be connected to the size of the damage, they are meant to punish the defendant for royally (in the judge's view) fucking up, and send a message to other similar defendants to not do such things And $5M in compensatory damages seems about right for 2 years of a successful small bakery

Honestly I'm not very keen on pinning blame/monetary responsibility on single individuals/companies to 'prevent/deter' unknown future crimes. We shouldn't be signaling with big punishments bigger than the crimes call for. We should carefully consider the crime based on the individual and how much punishment is appropriate for that individual to compensate the victim/deter that single individual/company from continuin…

When a single individual/company intentionally dors something bad why not pin it on them? The payment should be more than just making the victim whole. And it should be enough to make sure the aggressor doesn't do it again. At the same time that should also be a deterrent to others.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#77
post #25

I am not all sympathetic to Oberlin, but this judgement is absurd. It is many many lifetimes of income for a small bakery. Even if they were forced into bankruptcy, this is beyond the pale. "The latest amount consists of about $5 million in compensatory damages, nearly $20 million in punitive damages, $6.5 million in attorney’s fees and almost $5 million in interest." This only contributes to our litigious society wh…

> So I am glad Oberlin lost overall, but the size of this judgement makes me very sad.

If it had been a much smaller amount then the college would not care about losing one bit. They might even revel in losing as a way of burnishing their activist bona fides. It would be like a marketing expense if it were an order of magnitude lower.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I'm not very keen on pinning blame/monetary responsibility on single individuals/companies to 'prevent/deter' unknown future crimes. We shouldn't be signaling with big punishments bigger than the crimes call for. We should carefully consider the crime based on the individual and how much punishment is appropriate for that individual to compensate the victim/deter that single individual/company from continuin…

When a single individual/company intentionally dors something bad why not pin it on them? The payment should be more than just making the victim whole. And it should be enough to make sure the aggressor doesn't do it again. At the same time that should also be a deterrent to others.

I agree with everything you said except the last sentence. Why should the punishment for the crime be increased to be used as a deterrent for others?

Add a deterrence but only make the deterrence with the intention/scope of the individual who committed the crime.

Don't add a deterrence with the intention of stopping other unrelated parties. That is an unfair assessment of my individual crime and the harm that I caused.

That is an unequal punishment/consideration that shouldn't be included in the process.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#79

> The college said then that the bakery’s “archaic chase-and-detain policy regarding suspected shoplifters was the catalyst for the protests.” IIRC, the employee tried to take a photo of the shoplifter with his phone. The shoplifter took/smashed the phone or something. This makes it much more reasonable for the employee to try to stop the shoplifter from getting away. It wasn't like he tried to cuff the guy off the b…

Yep. From wikipedia:

> On Wednesday, November 9, 2016, an underage African-American Oberlin College student and Student Assistant Treasurer,[9] Jonathan Aladin (aka Elijah Aladin), attempted to purchase a bottle of wine using a fake identification card.[8] The store clerk, Allyn D. Gibson, a son and grandson of the owners,[6] rejected the fake ID. Gibson noticed that the student was concealing two other bottles of wine inside his jacket.[10][6] According to a police report, Gibson told the student he was contacting the police, and when Gibson pulled out his phone to take a photo of the student, the student slapped it away, striking Gibson's face.[11] The student ran out of the store. Gibson followed and then grabbed and held onto the shoplifter outside the store after the shoplifter had also assaulted the store owner, David Gibson.[6] Two other students, Cecelia Whettstone and Endia Lawrence, friends of the shoplifter, joined the scuffle.[6] When the police arrived, they witnessed Gibson lying on the ground with the three students punching and kicking him.[11] The police report stated that Gibson sustained a swollen lip, several cuts, and other minor injuries.[7][12] The police arrested the students, charging all three with assault and the shoplifter with robbery as well. In August 2017, the three students pleaded guilty, stating that they believed Gibson's actions were justified and were not racially motivated.[11][13][14] Their plea deals carried no jail time in exchange for restitution, the public statement, and a promise of future good behavior.[13][15] From their trial courtroom, Assistant Dean of Students Antoinette Myers sent Raimondo a text message: "I hope we rain fire and brimstone on that store."[16]

That's not really an example of a "chase-and-detain policy", nor was it a "suspected shoplifter"; by the time anyone was chasing anyone else, it was a matter of assault.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#80
post #47
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't necessarily go against your point, but I have seen far too many innocent people coerced into pleading guilty to actually believe someone is guilty based on a guilty plea.

This was a civil trial, not criminal. The college never plead guilty. They were found liable. The college had competent legal representation and there was no coercion.

Gp wasn't talking about the college but the shoplifter, who was a criminal defendant and whose legal representation we have no knowledge of.
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