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Why companies are interested in Myers-Briggs types

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Re: Why companies are interested in Myers-Briggs types

#241

Post by notch656a »

chefandy wrote: post #239
nomel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been involved in hiring at several tech companies, including two top 5. Cover letters were never considered in any part of the interview process. Our recruiters didn't even include them in the candidate packet. So, there definitely isn't any uniformity in the way cover letters are perceived.

I never said you couldn't get a very prestigious job without a cover letter. In fact, I'm positive top 5 companies are far less likely to care about cover letters than many organizations. They want to hire people who are mostly excited about the code and solving exciting problems that come up while the company does its thing. Get a stack of resumes, sort by pedigree and experience, put them in front of a whiteboard t…

The only reliable component about getting a job is being a desirable candidate. That's it. Maybe you write some great cover letters. I have worked for both startup and non-profit without writing a cover letter. Sometimes a resume and a glass of whiskey with the CEO is enough to get these jobs. I could probably get a job just as easily with a bottle of whiskey and two glasses as I could with a cover letter. Although the whiskey is the only one of the two I've any experience with.

Re: Why companies are interested in Myers-Briggs types

#242

Post by gfaster »

themodelplumber wrote: post #160
gfaster wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I dislike having labels on myself that describe behavior whether it be pseudo-science or science-science because I find myself "role-playing" those labels and semi-consciously using them to guide actions. Even for medically diagnosed disorders I'll end up unconsciously thinking "Well of course, I'm going to do X because I have disorder Y/personality type Z".

This is easily one of the best comments in the thread, nice job being authentic to your experience! :-) BTW have you ever gotten into acting, even on the side? Asking because your comment reminded me of some people I've known with similar experiences.

Thank you! I've never been much for acting save for a brief foray in elementary school, during which I found out that I don't particularly enjoy trying to act out a character.

Re: Why companies are interested in Myers-Briggs types

#243

Post by nomel »

chefandy wrote: post #239
nomel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been involved in hiring at several tech companies, including two top 5. Cover letters were never considered in any part of the interview process. Our recruiters didn't even include them in the candidate packet. So, there definitely isn't any uniformity in the way cover letters are perceived.

I never said you couldn't get a very prestigious job without a cover letter. In fact, I'm positive top 5 companies are far less likely to care about cover letters than many organizations. They want to hire people who are mostly excited about the code and solving exciting problems that come up while the company does its thing. Get a stack of resumes, sort by pedigree and experience, put them in front of a whiteboard t…

> I never said you couldn't get a very prestigious job without a cover letter.

I didn't suggest this, at all. I suggested the value of a cover letter is not some constant across the tech sector, from startups (sample size = 2) to the big 5 (sample size = 2).

Re: Why companies are interested in Myers-Briggs types

#244

Post by chefandy »

notch656a wrote: post #241
chefandy wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said you couldn't get a very prestigious job without a cover letter. In fact, I'm positive top 5 companies are far less likely to care about cover letters than many organizations. They want to hire people who are mostly excited about the code and solving exciting problems that come up while the company does its thing. Get a stack of resumes, sort by pedigree and experience, put them in front of a whiteboard t…

The only reliable component about getting a job is being a desirable candidate. That's it. Maybe you write some great cover letters. I have worked for both startup and non-profit without writing a cover letter. Sometimes a resume and a glass of whiskey with the CEO is enough to get these jobs. I could probably get a job just as easily with a bottle of whiskey and two glasses as I could with a cover letter. Although t…

Well of course being a desirable candidate is a prerequisite-- this thread is about cover letters as a means of conveying that. I've interviewed hundreds of candidates for dozens of positions-- from internships to regular staff developers to post-doc roles-- in an organization that drew ambitious candidates that shared our specific interests from around the globe. Our organization, at large, immediately rejected resumes with search-and-replace template or missing cover letters, by the hundreds, because people's hard skills and experience weren't the primary factors in determining whether or not they would thrive in this organization. As I've repeatedly acknowledged, there are many jobs, candidates, and job searching scenarios where that's not the case. Surely, the glass of whiskey scenario makes sense in many contexts, but in ours, it's wholly inapplicable. I'm not really sure why you insistently present your own use case for job application materials as an argument against what I said, but I've stopped caring and I'm done engaging you about it.

Re: Why companies are interested in Myers-Briggs types

#245

Post by notch656a »

chefandy wrote: post #244
notch656a wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reliable component about getting a job is being a desirable candidate. That's it. Maybe you write some great cover letters. I have worked for both startup and non-profit without writing a cover letter. Sometimes a resume and a glass of whiskey with the CEO is enough to get these jobs. I could probably get a job just as easily with a bottle of whiskey and two glasses as I could with a cover letter. Although t…

Well of course being a desirable candidate is a prerequisite-- this thread is about cover letters as a means of conveying that. I've interviewed hundreds of candidates for dozens of positions-- from internships to regular staff developers to post-doc roles-- in an organization that drew ambitious candidates that shared our specific interests from around the globe. Our organization, at large, immediately rejected resu…

No post body was provided.

Re: Why companies are interested in Myers-Briggs types

#246

Post by chefandy »

notch656a wrote: post #245
chefandy wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well of course being a desirable candidate is a prerequisite-- this thread is about cover letters as a means of conveying that. I've interviewed hundreds of candidates for dozens of positions-- from internships to regular staff developers to post-doc roles-- in an organization that drew ambitious candidates that shared our specific interests from around the globe. Our organization, at large, immediately rejected resu…

Quoted post unavailable.

What a great segue back into my first comment in the thread.

Re: Why companies are interested in Myers-Briggs types

#248

Post by slothtrop »

runarberg wrote: post #238
slothtrop wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing it's not a measure of behavior, but of preference.

If preference does not correlate with behavior, you are effectively measuring nothing. However it does correlate with behavior, otherwise personality traits would be completely dead as a science. But the effect is very weak next to the effect of the situation. Diverse personality traits will cheat if the environment is conducive to cheating behavior. I would put personality in the same camp as religious believes or p…

> If preference does not correlate with behavior, you are effectively measuring nothing.

Preference is not nothing. It reflects what people like and want.

Preference for these traits, e.g. introversion, is a fairly reliable predictor of behavior, but it doesn't matter if it is or not, if someone lies to themselves entirely (however likely that is). The purpose is regurgitating to the test-taker what they like and want. I don't see how a company could make good use of it.

Re: Why companies are interested in Myers-Briggs types

#249

Post by slothtrop »

tschwimmer wrote: post #152
slothtrop wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems extremely unlikely that someone would always have a tendency in every axis all the time It's a preference. You're making it out to be more than it is. It doesn't preclude that someone can have little preference for one tendency over another. Most times test results give you percentages. > Telling people that they're mostly average, even if for a lot of people it's the truth, doesn't convince them they're g…

I think "you're making it out to be more than it is" sort of surrenders the whole purpose of the test. If the test isn't consistent and doesn't have the power to predict outcomes, then it is effectively the same as the "which Harry Potter Character are you" Buzzfeed quizzes - e.g. amusing but meaningless. As for who pays for this stuff: At least two of the FAANGs pay consultants thousands of dollars to run these test…

The purpose is reflecting back to the test-taker what they like and want. Whether it's incongruous with their actual behavior is irrelevant, but people don't tend to be dishonest to themselves about things like "introversion", not entirely. Self-therapy/exploration is one use-case alongside entertainment as you said. I don't think companies should bother with it, unless they plan to give employees what they want. On the other hand, the testing itself could be regarded as something that keeps the drones amused. It's hard to imagine another purpose.

Re: Why companies are interested in Myers-Briggs types

#250

Post by gmarx »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #99
gmarx wrote: post #4

The author says each of the big 5 is on a "sliding scale". I admit this is a bit pedantic, but isn't each just on a plain old scale? Wouldn't a sliding scale imply that one score could affect how another was graded?

> Wouldn't a sliding scale imply that one score could affect how another was graded? Not to me; I am actually not familiar with any clear meaning for the phrase "sliding scale". It's just a thing people sometimes say. If you wanted to say that your score on one axis could affect how your answers to questions on another axis are interpreted, you'd need to call them something like "non-independent". Not much call for t…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sliding_scale_fees
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