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Eight Secret Societies (2016)

smithsonianmag.com

71–80 of 125 posts

Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)

#71

I'm a Freemason. I haven't been to a lodge meeting in quite awhile, but there are a few observations I think worth making: * "Secret societies" have an air of mystique about them, and that played no small part in my joining. The theatricality of some rituals gives a sense of gravitas to the group that is often lacking in everyday life. * Freemasonry at least does a lot of quiet charity. There is a not-insignificant a…

Last point, I believe that's why the "Knights of Columbus" exist?

Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)

#72

Secret societies have an air of mystique around them, but often they're just social clubs with extra steps. People are social creatures, and having something to belong to is healthy for most!

Those are the fake secret societies the real ones make in order to make you think they’re all just glorified social clubs. /s

Leonard Leo, who's had more influence over the selection of Supreme Court Justices than just about anyone, belongs to a Catholic secret society. It's not silliness or paranoia to worry about groups like these.

Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a strong correlation. For example, there was an Oddfellows chapter near me I checked out a few times. They turned out to be some weird sect of Wiccans. I mean, it's nice that they do good works, and I guess alls as well if they keep them separate, but I didn't intend spending time with people who pray to antlers and host nude religious gatherings. And it felt to me, perhaps in a way, they were using a…

I have never heard of Oddfellows doing such things, but now I'm really curious to find out more.

I didn't mean to imply all Oddfellows do that, just the correlation between the people who join or start 'secret' societies and religion.

IIRC, the one I'm referring to was a dead chapter that a few people offered to take over, something to that extent.

Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)

#74

I'm a Freemason. I haven't been to a lodge meeting in quite awhile, but there are a few observations I think worth making: * "Secret societies" have an air of mystique about them, and that played no small part in my joining. The theatricality of some rituals gives a sense of gravitas to the group that is often lacking in everyday life. * Freemasonry at least does a lot of quiet charity. There is a not-insignificant a…

In France, where their attitude to adultery is rather relaxed, Freemasonry is often a coed activity.

Hiding affairs under a seal of masonic secrecy would be dangerous business in America.

Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)

#75
post #2

The article mentions how in the past, the Patriotic Order Sons of America didn't allow black people to join. They eventually changed but I'm wondering if the change was forced. Is it legal to discriminate on the basis of race or sex today?

I am a former Mason. I left the lodge due to no longer complying with their requirement to believe in a higher power (God). To be explicit: Masonry used to be segregated into "Prince Hall" masonic halls (for non-white folks) and "normal" masonic halls. This split was ended, and now Prince Hall masonic halls are full masonic lodges, and membership is recognized in both directions. In practice; every lodge I ever atten…

I believe the Prince Hall lodges were always proper Masonic lodges, they just derived their charters from Irish then English lodges, rather than from the American lodges. They were always fully legit.

It took a while for American lodges to recognise that.

Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)

#76
post #2

The article mentions how in the past, the Patriotic Order Sons of America didn't allow black people to join. They eventually changed but I'm wondering if the change was forced. Is it legal to discriminate on the basis of race or sex today?

It is legal for private clubs that do not offer services to the public to discriminate based on race, sex, national origin etc. Butler National, Preston Trail, Burning Tree Club are examples of male only golf clubs/courses.

Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)

#77

I was once tapped to be part of a secret society. It was an interesting experience, but in the end I did not join.

Aye. I was at my friend's grandparent's house (he grew up in his grandparents house) as a youth, probably 11 or 12, and his grandfather mentioned he was offered to join the masons by a work buddy. He promptly told us he did not join.

Few are called, even fewer accept the call.

Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)

#78

I'm a Freemason. I haven't been to a lodge meeting in quite awhile, but there are a few observations I think worth making: * "Secret societies" have an air of mystique about them, and that played no small part in my joining. The theatricality of some rituals gives a sense of gravitas to the group that is often lacking in everyday life. * Freemasonry at least does a lot of quiet charity. There is a not-insignificant a…

What do you get from it? (Not in a materialistic sense)

Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)

#79

I'm a Freemason. I haven't been to a lodge meeting in quite awhile, but there are a few observations I think worth making: * "Secret societies" have an air of mystique about them, and that played no small part in my joining. The theatricality of some rituals gives a sense of gravitas to the group that is often lacking in everyday life. * Freemasonry at least does a lot of quiet charity. There is a not-insignificant a…

Dude, ping me with your lodge number and I will definitely visit if I'm in your city.

Part of what attracted me to Freemasonry was the quality of their enemies, as whatever those accusers had a problem with, I was pretty sure I wanted to be on the other team. The other thing was finding the pigpen cipher doing security work. It's so not-secret I don't mind being relatively open about it, as you know that every other guy you meet in it had to be vetted as not a total danger to himself and others.

The other part that interested me was a (perhaps apocryphal) story about how lodges in the UK were instrumental as neutral territory between religious partisans during the Troubles, and other stories about the idea of a persistent commitment to meeting on the level with men as peers that transcends the official politics of the day. To me, this is a crucial part of the fabric of civil society, just as much as the Chatham House rule is. We need this ability to have honest discussions as individuals now more than ever. There's a rule you don't use the privacy of lodge to discuss politics or religion, but outside, guys who would be on the opposite sides of a civil war right now sit and listen to each other over pints, test ideas, and really listen on the basis that dozens of other guys say this guy is ok, so even if I don't agree with him, there's something valuable about his experience. The continuity of basic fraternity among men as an essential principle of civic life is what religions and politics fundamentally lack.

I think the high bar is the theism, as that's probably the only irreconcilable difference in beliefs, as the logic of ideas from the axioms of theism vs. atheism are just alien to one another.

Men being able to meet and relate as equals outside their public lives requires a level of trust that only comes with the mutual guarantees of privacy. It sounds meta, but really, imagine just having a lot of friends you trusted and who would give you the benefit of the doubt, but had enough distance like co-workers where you weren't very judgmental of each other.

The secrecy aspect is really about setting a personal boundary, where the few secrets themselves are yours to keep, and this ability to have something that is yours, whereby there is a you independent of your other relationships, and that is a foundation for breaking co-dependency habits and other boyhood things a lot of guys never manage to grow past.

It's a very mixed bag, but you see where you are, and where other guys are at different stages of their lives and circumstances. It does seem unlikely in hindsight that a committed Catholic partisan would defy the papal bull, risking excommunication, and accept initiation into masonry, but the principles of masonry, encoded in allegories and a kind of memory palace (the method of loci) of symbols gives you a set of reference ideals you can measure your own character by and develop personally against them.

Lumping masonry in with secret socieities and cults is pretty dumb. When I hear conspiracy theories about masons, I always ask, "cui bono?" Who benefits from discouraging good men looking for moral and ethical lessons from finding each other and recognizing each other as equals? When you look at historical movements against fraternal organizations, it's worth asking, who fears good men?

Anyway, looking back, all it has cost me is the ability to give short answers.

Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a former Mason. I left the lodge due to no longer complying with their requirement to believe in a higher power (God). To be explicit: Masonry used to be segregated into "Prince Hall" masonic halls (for non-white folks) and "normal" masonic halls. This split was ended, and now Prince Hall masonic halls are full masonic lodges, and membership is recognized in both directions. In practice; every lodge I ever atten…

You dont have to believe in God. Segregation (PHL) is a US only thing. You were correct to leave. That voting system was not Masonic and I've never seen it anywhere else, and nor do i believe it would be tolerated anywhere else. Please dont edit or delete your post.

During my time as a Mason (I left for much the same reason as jayofdoom), we followed the same procedure when voting for new members. The couple of times there was a non-unanimous vote, the Master called for another vote, in case anyone made a mistake or wanted to reconsider. In none of the cases did anyone make a show of not voting or showing their votes, though. I think it only happened twice in the 12 or so years I was there. I have no idea why someone rejected one of the candidates; and in the other, I suspect some of our members thought the candidate wanted to join because he thought it would help him with a political career (this is purely speculation; we didn't discuss this at all).
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