Isn't the whole idea behind a secret society that the general public doesn't know about it? I thought that's what secret meant.
Eight Secret Societies (2016)
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Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)
#12Well, they're not that secret apparently
I get the joke, but I don't think the existence of the society itself is supposed to be a secret, but what happens within the confines is held to secrecy.
The secret society vs. society with secrets distinction is what Anglo-American Freemasonry has historically highlighted to disclaim the label "secret society." Agree with it or not, that usage does have some currency.
Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)
#13Isn't the whole idea behind a secret society that the general public doesn't know about it? I thought that's what secret meant.
One of the most fundamental characteristics of evil is that the evil person cannot help but desire to gain fame for their crimes. (Just look up how many criminals have been arrested by their social media posts.)
A Secret Society might be completely secretive, and yet be unable to resist helping themselves to claiming some credit. Kind of like the Anonymous hacker group in their day. Or Ross Ulbricht adopting the name "Dread Pirate Roberts" on all of his work which really hurt him when he was caught.
Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)
#14Isn't the whole idea behind a secret society that the general public doesn't know about it? I thought that's what secret meant.
Believe it or not, a "secret" society refers to the secrets they hold, not that the society itself is secret. The Masons are public about their existence (if quiet) but their inner "rites and rituals" are secret.
Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)
#15> Eight Secret Societies You Might Not Know
They aren't secret anymore - not when they are in the Smithsonian!
Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)
#16Isn't the whole idea behind a secret society that the general public doesn't know about it? I thought that's what secret meant.
Membership, what goes on there, and specific processes/rituals/documentation being secret is more important than the existence and purpose.
Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)
#17> Eight Secret Societies You Might Not Know They aren't secret anymore - not when they are in the Smithsonian!
Yeah - the real Secret Societies are actually Secret and probably operating in our world all the time without displaying it. There's no evidence, just because you don't see Secret Societies much anymore, that they don't exist. There was a lack of evidence at the time for all the societies on the list.
Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)
#18Isn't the whole idea behind a secret society that the general public doesn't know about it? I thought that's what secret meant.
One of the most fundamental characteristics of evil is that the evil person cannot help but desire to gain fame for their crimes. (Just look up how many criminals have been arrested by their social media posts.) A Secret Society might be completely secretive, and yet be unable to resist helping themselves to claiming some credit. Kind of like the Anonymous hacker group in their day. Or Ross Ulbricht adopting the name…
It's a real jump to go from "secret society" to "evil criminals".
Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the UK (& I believe EU) that's true to the extent that you could have an even more personal ('I don't like your face') objection, but your reasoning can't be on the basis of a 'protected characteristic', such as race. Though actually maybe private members' clubs have some kind of exception to that - gender is also a protected characteristic under that act, but there are gentlemen's (only) clubs still (ladies' too…
There are male-only clubs (The Garrack, Savage Club), and more modern female and non-binary only clubs (such as the marguerite). They are all, by definition sexist, but you are allowed under UK law to be such when deciding who to invite to a party. What would be interesting, is if one became a monopoly in its niche (often clubs have a _thing_), whether one could argue they missed out on serious opportunities in work…
Indeed it was The Garrick about which Baroness Hale made something rather like that argument, noting that many of her male colleagues were members, perhaps implying that they enjoyed a networking opportunity that she had been denied:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/06/garrick-club-v...
Re: Eight Secret Societies (2016)
#20The article mentions how in the past, the Patriotic Order Sons of America didn't allow black people to join. They eventually changed but I'm wondering if the change was forced. Is it legal to discriminate on the basis of race or sex today?
If a club is truly private they can. ianal but I believe they have to be very specific about their membership criteria. Like you couldn't have criteria that permits anyone who isn't black it would have to be a lot more specific than just that.
You can legally exclude on any basis if you’re running an actual private club. But if it smells like a public accommodation (a restaurant that you can patronize without being a member of the club, for example), then the prohibitions against exclusion on the basis of race, religion, etc. kick in.