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Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

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Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#171

Post by drewcoo »

dmix wrote: post #132
redleggedfrog wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, dude at my job totally got "laid off" for choosing to write a feature in an ecommerce system in React. He had used it before at a previous job and was familiar with it. Problem was: - No one else in the team was familiar with React. - React did not play nice with the rest of the app and developer work flow. - It was huge and slow - He didn't know React as well as he thought he did and we had endless bugs. - He…

They didn’t literally mean getting fired for choosing a framework choice and it doesn’t sound like your story does either. The point is about making safe choices compared to alternatives. Migrating a project without full team buy in and without testing the waters in small incremental experiments is a developer/management problem.

Everyone gets miscorrected for using either a heuristic or an analogy.

Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#172

Post by solardev »

rk06 wrote: post #153
solardev wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So ref is just a state variable with an initial value of 10? How do you mutate the variable/change the state?

No, $ref(10) will return a reactive object. And 10 will be the initial value of that object. You use the object the same way you use a js variable. let st = $ref(10) st = st + 1 // update it and use it like if it was just "10" But now, st is reactive.

Thank you for the explanation... I will have to learn a lot of basics, it looks like :)

Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#173

Post by danielvaughn »

antifa wrote: post #165
danielvaughn wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As for the "can't find devs that know it" problem, I'd suggest anyone reading this that Svelte is incredibly easy to pick up. Like I skimmed the docs in literally a few minutes, and was able to build out a reasonably sophisticated application almost immediately.

I lost a non-trivial amount of time converting a vuejs app to svelte before getting blindsided by svelte not having basic error handling: https://github.com/sveltejs/svelte/issues/1096 Many types of errors that the equivalent vuejs/react app will show an error page and allow reporting to sentry for will result in an uncatchable halting (some may describe this as "freezing") and with no way to report this to a service…

I hear you. My comment was mostly addressing the ease of learning the basics. I eventually decided to abandon it once I ran into a couple of very-difficult-to-debug problems, but I also didn't try too hard to resolve them. I did not realize they have no error handling, that's interesting.

Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#174

Post by lakomen »

y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #167

I still think Vue (especially Vue 2) is the greatest of them all. I've worked professionally with Angular, React, and Vue. Each for several years. Vue is easily the winner for me with the syntax that closely matches native HTML and JS/TS and how it encourages clean separation of concerns and clean code. JSX/TSX is absolutely the worst for the latter, it's like the wild west. "But you don't have to write it that way"…

Amen brother preach however I don't agree with the last paragraph. It's just a different way of expressing it and in React that's actually straightforward, all your interpreted logic is in {}.

Each of them has their upsides but personally I use Vue because it just worksTM. And it has vuex-orm, which albeit not perfect is the only no bs client state orm that you can query any way you like and supports relationships.

I was in an Angular discord and dared speak against the pipes/streams. They has their place but ultimately they're too complicated for every day use. No it's not an issue of me not being able to deal with them. It's a too complicated way. Sometimes all you need is 1 variable, to which the moderators there said I'm doing it wrong, no it's in the data store and I want that 1 var's value, I have to break my fingers just to get it, a block of code to get 1 value, since I can't write if a == 10...

Well they kept suggesting I'm too dumb to handle it and in the end banned me for criticizing their holy framework. I said that I've recently worked with Vue, you have to try other things too, after 3 years of Angular and that Vue was a productivity increase and that I finished 2 projects with vue in the same time I did half a project in Angular.

In the end Vue won it for me, I tried React also NextJS and React has some nice things, it's more JS , more straightforward than Vue but its ecosystem is a hell of commercial offerings. Want to use MUI? Well pay up. Redux-orm complicated because Redux is complicated.

Svelte, I'd love to use it but it's always in development it seems and no "proper" or well maintained packages seem to exist. I did 2 experimental projects with Svelte, it's nice and it's fast but it's never there... always in development

Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#175

Post by Existenceblinks »

yawnxyz wrote: post #3

I've worked with all three frameworks, but as a mostly single dev/engineer I very very much prefer Svelte because it lacks a lot of boilerplate that React has, and it's easier to think about than Vue's clunky way to write variables and functions. But I'm a "hacker type" and don't work in a large tech company. I haven't seen Svelte in any sort of "real tech companies", haven't seen it on job boards, and it doesn't see…

It's a mixed bag of marketing, hiring pool, late mover, and cult problems. The latest one doesn't contribute much but to deaccelerate.

The critical point of adoption is libraries, there must be variety of them to serve broad kind of application. That's "late mover" problem, people are tired of re-implementing stuff again. I wish popular frameworks would pass down some funding to vanilla js libs individuals.

Marketing, it's about image of "facebook's engineering team" vs "these individuals guys". (often time, big corp's team is not that smart, really)

Hiring pool. Small companies couldn't afford shinny things (risks management), so the larger pools of dev, the less risk.

Cult, ahaa.. It seems to LOTs of devs agree that Re*ct sucks. Leaving a cult is not easy, it's leaving community. Most people don't want to leave at all, and in a sense they hate that people are leaving too! They become angry and defensive. So we don't make progress more quickly here.

Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#176

Post by Existenceblinks »

mritchie712 wrote: post #41
yawnxyz wrote: post #3

I've worked with all three frameworks, but as a mostly single dev/engineer I very very much prefer Svelte because it lacks a lot of boilerplate that React has, and it's easier to think about than Vue's clunky way to write variables and functions. But I'm a "hacker type" and don't work in a large tech company. I haven't seen Svelte in any sort of "real tech companies", haven't seen it on job boards, and it doesn't see…

It's a case of "Nobody ever got fired for choosing X"[0]. No one would blame you for choosing React for a major project / new startup, but someone could definitely poke holes in choosing Svelte ("theres no package for X", "it doesn't scale", "we can't find devs that know it", etc.) 0 - https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-phrase-Nobody-ever-got-f...

I would question the decision maker seriously if he chose a 130.5kb (.min) dom lib instead of sub 10kb alternatives.

Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#177

Post by nathias »

intrasight wrote: post #55
nathias wrote: post #2

I mostly work with React, but Svelte is so much better in every way, I hope it becomes more popular soon.

Your comment captures in a nutshell why new frameworks face an uphill climb.

because people like them very much?

Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#178

Post by Existenceblinks »

no_wizard wrote: post #143

Svelte is what Ember could have been and where I suspect Vue is ultimately going (in their own flavor of course). If you really like templates and the constraints they bring over being closer to plain JavaScript, Svelte takes that to the most logical "extreme". On the other hand, if you like leveraging most JavaScript features then React, Preact, Inferno, SolidJS and especially Lit are much closer to allowing develop…

My endgame is lib like uhtml/lit-html(alone), custom element, event delegation technique and global store. You can write any fancy widget with this. Writing your own (event -> update -> render) is not rocket science, just utilizing the platform! (seriously, don't make fun of platform, it's legit)

Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#180

Post by lakomen »

pugio wrote: post #21

Just published an app on both app stores using Svelte and Ionic. Svelte was a pleasure to use - everything seems like just enough of what you need, without adding any additional mental overhead or complexity. I'm really looking forward to the stable release of SvelteKit to use as the backend for my next project.

That's the thing... it's always never stable always in development.

I'll habe to check this combination put however. Now the price question, did you use an oidc client? If so which works with both app and web?

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