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Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

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Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#21

Post by nicbou »

Semaphor wrote: post #7
aqme28 wrote: post #2

It's interesting watching the difference in how transit is treated by officials between NYC (where I lived last year) and Berlin (where I live this year). In NYC, we're ramping up enforcement and cracking down on fare jumping. In Berlin, it's the opposite-- less fare-enforcement and more subsidies for people to take the train. I really have a hard time seeing how NYC's strategy could be more effective. It's not even…

I’ve been to Berlin once in the last 10 or so years. Took the bus. Had to pay with a 20€ bill. The driver looked at me as if I’m trying to hand him something poisonous and waved me through.

It got better. Now you can use Android pay in the buses and at train stations. The ticket app is decent too.

Only the old machines in the tram remain. Those only take coins.

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#22

Post by njarboe »

black_puppydog wrote: post #3

It's a bit frustrating to see that sunset clauses for laws trying something controversial aren't more common. What we're seeing right now (everyone debating whether this was good or not) is what I'd have wanted to see for most/all surveillance laws. I'm hoping they find something reasonable to follow up; for what it costs it really left a huge impression on everyone I've been talking to, quite the flagship project.

The "PATROIT" act did have sunset clauses. It kept getting re-uped but finally expired on March 15th, 2020 mainly due to Trump's veto threat. The vote on the bill to extend the act was indefinitely postponed.[1] So you are right that having those sunset clauses are important.

That being said, many of the surveillance provisions in the act were retained in other bills and the history and current situation is pretty complicated[2].

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act#Section_expiration... [2]https://www.justsecurity.org/78753/rethinking-surveillance-o...

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#23

Post by robertlagrant »

JonathanBeuys wrote: post #18

If the goal is to reduce CO2 emissions, why not tax CO2 emissions? Shouldn't the market work it out in the best possible way then?

In the UK road tax is based on your car's CO2 emissions.

The problem is when the VW scandal broke, lots of people had bought diesels to lower their CO2 and suddenly diesels were evil and needed disincentivising. So the problem is anything like that isn't cleverly designed enough to be trustworthy, or even if it is, political whim could still overturn it.

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#24

Post by nicbou »

pro_zac wrote: post #4

“The discounted ticket constituted a major price reduction. Normally, monthly tickets for local transportation in Berlin cost €107.“

107€? That's the most expensive monthly pass (it includes Zone C, which is the area beyond the city limits). The 86€ pass is plenty for most, and a yearly abo would reduce it to 63€ a month. It's also tax-deductible.

https://www.bvg.de/en/tickets-tariffs/all-tickets

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#25

Post by mym1990 »

JonathanBeuys wrote: post #18

If the goal is to reduce CO2 emissions, why not tax CO2 emissions? Shouldn't the market work it out in the best possible way then?

It would be the number one way to not being re-elected. I think herding people towards a better alternative via creative strategies while not creating public outrage is a good way to go from a politician's perspective.

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#26

Post by severino »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #12

German €9 transit ticket would be even more effective, if they didn't mandate wearing masks in public transport. I know many people that previously used public transport, and now use cars exclusively, only because they don't have desire to wear masks during the commute.

For me it's the opposite: I wouldn't use public transportation and resort to my private car if masks were not mandated. I know getting covid is now the coolest thing on earth by I'll take a pass while I can.

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#27

Post by wongarsu »

JonathanBeuys wrote: post #18

If the goal is to reduce CO2 emissions, why not tax CO2 emissions? Shouldn't the market work it out in the best possible way then?

We do. In Germany emissions from burning fuel for transportation and heating is taxed with €30/kg CO2, rising to €55/kg CO2 by 2026.

There's also a cap-and-trade scheme at EU level that covers various industries [1]. It was very tame for a long time, with prices hovering around €5/kg CO2, but since 2018 prices have gone up a lot and it now sits around €80/kg CO2.

Still, German public transit is in need of some reforms, and seeing that an experiment produced greenhouse gas reductions is a positive signal.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Emissions_Tradi...

[2] https://icapcarbonaction.com/en/ets-prices (click on systems to filter)

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#28

Post by jupp0r »

This has cost the German government 2.5 billion Euros [1].

That’s $1388 per metric ton of CO2. Current direct air capture technology is estimated to cost between $132 and $342 per metric ton [2]. If the goal was to reduce carbon emissions, this was a giant waste of money, even compared to the most expensive forms of carbon reduction.

[1] https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.9-euro-ticket-kost...

[2] https://www.iea.org/commentaries/is-carbon-capture-too-expen...

edit: corrected price per ton

Re: Germany's €9 transit ticket cuts 1.8 million tonnes of CO2

#29

Post by runarberg »

aqme28 wrote: post #2

It's interesting watching the difference in how transit is treated by officials between NYC (where I lived last year) and Berlin (where I live this year). In NYC, we're ramping up enforcement and cracking down on fare jumping. In Berlin, it's the opposite-- less fare-enforcement and more subsidies for people to take the train. I really have a hard time seeing how NYC's strategy could be more effective. It's not even…

You can add Seattle to your comparison. Fare enforcement is almost non-existing at the moment, and more and more groups are traveling for free. However transit quality is not nearly on the same level as in New York or Berlin.
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