Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Who controls the Internet? And should they? (2021)

berthub.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 66 posts

Re: Who controls the Internet? And should they? (2021)

#21

Post by jaywalk »

Ygg2 wrote: post #20
jart wrote: post #17

I like Bert Hubert's writing because he always comes across as someone who's unbiased and genuinely cares. One thing I'm surprised he didn't mention is how large corporations operate their own private internets in basically the same way as countries like China and North Korea. Why wouldn't they? It's how the ARPAnet used to work. They only let scientists, engineers, and university students use the thing. I'm sure it…

> Where is it written that private internets are perfectly normal when a corporation does it, but evil when a country does too? The impact is different*, scale is different, and countries doing it have track record of using it to hide their misdeeds. *It's generally ok if you build a wall around your property. Not so much if a country does it.

In reality, corporations hold just as much if not more power over the Internet than governments. Even though a corporation can't physically lock you up, they can (and have, many times) give you a virtual "death penalty" if they don't like you for whatever reason.

This is not OK, and "but private companies can do what they want" really needs to be rethought to reflect reality. We have governments essentially using corporations to get around their own legal restrictions.

Re: Who controls the Internet? And should they? (2021)

#22

Post by seydor »

Ygg2 wrote: post #20
jart wrote: post #17

I like Bert Hubert's writing because he always comes across as someone who's unbiased and genuinely cares. One thing I'm surprised he didn't mention is how large corporations operate their own private internets in basically the same way as countries like China and North Korea. Why wouldn't they? It's how the ARPAnet used to work. They only let scientists, engineers, and university students use the thing. I'm sure it…

> Where is it written that private internets are perfectly normal when a corporation does it, but evil when a country does too? The impact is different*, scale is different, and countries doing it have track record of using it to hide their misdeeds. *It's generally ok if you build a wall around your property. Not so much if a country does it.

> countries doing it have track record of using it to hide their misdeeds.

And companies don't? Internet companies are media, so their function is not neutral to the existence and function of states. Constitutions all around the world have specific "free press" provisions because the press is not "just another private business" but it has very real consequences for the existence of states. So do tech companies today, but they are untouchable, they enjoy even more protections than free press.

We still live with memories of the liberal internet of the '90s (even though we know it's long gone) and we stick to this romantic view of the intent of tech companies. The scale of those companies is bigger than indivudual states so i dont think the comparison is apt either.

Re: Who controls the Internet? And should they? (2021)

#24

Post by m348e912 »

bombcar wrote: post #16
jaywalk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having your own ASN doesn't mean a whole lot on it's own.

Each step higher on the chain gets you closer to terms of service that say "if it's legal, you're ok".

If it's legal, you're okay. I like how you stated this.

Conversely as you drop down the consumer chain to lets say a free service (eg twitter) the terms of service becomes markedly more complex and onerous.

Re: Who controls the Internet? And should they? (2021)

#25

Post by fallingknife »

seydor wrote: post #22
Ygg2 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where is it written that private internets are perfectly normal when a corporation does it, but evil when a country does too? The impact is different*, scale is different, and countries doing it have track record of using it to hide their misdeeds. *It's generally ok if you build a wall around your property. Not so much if a country does it.

> countries doing it have track record of using it to hide their misdeeds. And companies don't? Internet companies are media, so their function is not neutral to the existence and function of states. Constitutions all around the world have specific "free press" provisions because the press is not "just another private business" but it has very real consequences for the existence of states. So do tech companies today,…

Freedom of the press doesn't mean freedom for a specific type of private business. It means anybody with a printing press. In other words anybody is allowed to publish and distribute whatever they want.

Re: Who controls the Internet? And should they? (2021)

#26

Post by hulitu »

fallingknife wrote: post #25
seydor wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> countries doing it have track record of using it to hide their misdeeds. And companies don't? Internet companies are media, so their function is not neutral to the existence and function of states. Constitutions all around the world have specific "free press" provisions because the press is not "just another private business" but it has very real consequences for the existence of states. So do tech companies today,…

Freedom of the press doesn't mean freedom for a specific type of private business. It means anybody with a printing press. In other words anybody is allowed to publish and distribute whatever they want.

Can you name a place where this is possible ?

Re: Who controls the Internet? And should they? (2021)

#27

Post by hulitu »

jaywalk wrote: post #8

No mention of Cloudflare or Amazon, who arguably control more of the Internet than any of the entities listed in the article. Definitely more than any of the other corporations listed.

No mention of other facts which he should know if he worked for intelligence services (DE-CIX).

Re: Who controls the Internet? And should they? (2021)

#29

Post by fallingknife »

hulitu wrote: post #26
fallingknife wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of the press doesn't mean freedom for a specific type of private business. It means anybody with a printing press. In other words anybody is allowed to publish and distribute whatever they want.

Can you name a place where this is possible ?

1700's USA. Internet up to 2015 ish.
Post reply on HN