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Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

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Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#131

Post by davidjfelix »

preommr wrote: post #81
davidjfelix wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: Sapper -> Sveltekit, you might say the same thing for React Router users who adopted Reach-router, back to react-router and are now on remix-router or next.js router. Also I found it weird that you mention Evan You WRT vite as a counter to why Rich might be up against stronger devs, but Rich made rollup, which was foundational to Vite's bundling.

I don't doubt Rich Harris' skills as a developper. But project governance is very different from have strong technical skills. Things like communication, prioritizing features important for the community, dealing with idiots way beyond when it stops becoming fun, gathering money, writing good documentation, etc. Rollup is cool, but it's a very different beast from a f/e framework. For a lot of projects, migrating fro…

What's wrong with svelte's documentation or the community interaction that's happening around svelete?

My point is that you've seemingly taken points away from Rich for the same reasons you're giving Evan You validity.

Migrating between react and vue would take probably the same amount of time -- I'm not really sure what your point is here. My point is that you've unfairly discounted Svelte on the same standards you're raising vue.

Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#132

Post by dmix »

redleggedfrog wrote: post #128
mritchie712 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a case of "Nobody ever got fired for choosing X"[0]. No one would blame you for choosing React for a major project / new startup, but someone could definitely poke holes in choosing Svelte ("theres no package for X", "it doesn't scale", "we can't find devs that know it", etc.) 0 - https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-phrase-Nobody-ever-got-f...

Nope, dude at my job totally got "laid off" for choosing to write a feature in an ecommerce system in React. He had used it before at a previous job and was familiar with it. Problem was: - No one else in the team was familiar with React. - React did not play nice with the rest of the app and developer work flow. - It was huge and slow - He didn't know React as well as he thought he did and we had endless bugs. - He…

They didn’t literally mean getting fired for choosing a framework choice and it doesn’t sound like your story does either.

The point is about making safe choices compared to alternatives. Migrating a project without full team buy in and without testing the waters in small incremental experiments is a developer/management problem.

Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#133

Post by andsoitis »

pragmatic wrote: post #59
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #42

Is Svelte blowing up in popularity? I've never heard of it until seeing it multiple places today. https://github.com/containers/podman-desktop

Yes. https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#section-most-loved-dre...

According to the survey you linked to:

Phoenix overtakes Svelte’s spot as the most loved web framework.

React.js completes its fifth year as most wanted.

So I’m not sure that’s an unequivocal “yes”.

Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#134

Post by andsoitis »

girvo wrote: post #109
pragmatic wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also asp and asp.net etc. I'm sure there's some on the java side I'm forgetting also.

Oh heck, yeah you’re right! Everything old is new again I suppose. Guess that makes me old now if I’m noticing it

Or you’re new again!

Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#135

Post by dmix »

qwertox wrote: post #31

I'm afraid of switching to Svelte because of what happened to Angular. I switched to Vue because of Angular's 1.x to 2+ upgrade. Then I was faced with the Vue 2 to Vue 3 upgrade, which now has a lot of my code in a state of mess. Svelte has always looked so promising, just what I wanted. But my fear is that if I ditch Vue and jump to Svelte, it will do the same thing as any other framework did: become a monster and c…

I upgraded to Vue 3 and Pinia and my project got 2x cleaner.

Vue 3 was designed with large complex projects in mind. Vue 2 is probably easier to grok when starting out or for small projects but the functional modularity, typescript integration, and reduced boilerplate with 3 really starts to show in large projects.

I did it slowly over a year and besides having to wait for some dependencies to catch up it was mostly painless.

Although the biggest pain-reduction was getting to use Vite instead of Webpack (shudder). The build tools not sucking is so critical when doing front end dev.

Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#136

Post by shroompasta »

ezfe wrote: post #117
shroompasta wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Svelte is a solution to a problem that doesn't need to be solved. almost with many things in software development to be honest.

Not having two DOMs running for every website is nice

i agree, but not a critical issue.

In less than a decade, i'm already guessing less than 5 years, WASM will come out with a viable frontend solution that will actually be groundbreaking.

The battles between frontend philosophies in javascript will look like child's play then.

I'm not going to waste anymore time switching FE frameworks (Jquery->Angular->React), as I've found that it's been quite useless (Although I really liked Solid - shame their animation libraries suck and the overall environment isn't mature enough).

I'm happy with React.

Performance isn't an end all be all.

Svelte doesn't have a chance to match the hiring pool of React, nor will Svelte Native ever compete with React Native in maturity.

In 5-7 years, we will be talking about ending the use of Javascript on the Frontend, So i really don't care about reactivity.

Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#137

Post by d1sxeyes »

azemetre wrote: post #126
vbezhenar wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did he managed to push his own framework. I’d love to rewrite the world, that’s so much more fun than converting Json to sql. But it would be a very hard sell to management to write our own framework instead of using something battle tested like spring boot.

Rich Harris did a lot of data viz work (IIRC) during his tenure at the NYT. I don't know if you have experience working with D3 and other template/view libraries but it's always been painful. D3 can also append the dom, so it makes certain parts of the API harder to use. There's also the need to work with large amounts of array values that are uniquely made with D3 (various SVG paths). I can easily see multiple teams…

He also started at the Guardian in UK developing Ractive, which I'm sure formed part of his job interview at the NYT.

Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#138

Post by AdrianB1 »

redleggedfrog wrote: post #128
mritchie712 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a case of "Nobody ever got fired for choosing X"[0]. No one would blame you for choosing React for a major project / new startup, but someone could definitely poke holes in choosing Svelte ("theres no package for X", "it doesn't scale", "we can't find devs that know it", etc.) 0 - https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-phrase-Nobody-ever-got-f...

Nope, dude at my job totally got "laid off" for choosing to write a feature in an ecommerce system in React. He had used it before at a previous job and was familiar with it. Problem was: - No one else in the team was familiar with React. - React did not play nice with the rest of the app and developer work flow. - It was huge and slow - He didn't know React as well as he thought he did and we had endless bugs. - He…

This should never happen, the developers should not choose whatever technology stack or components they want for their piece of code, that's how Frankenstein started. But getting fired is reasonable in this case.

Re: Introducing Svelte, and Comparing Svelte with React and Vue (2021)

#139

Post by bdougherty »

qwertox wrote: post #31

I'm afraid of switching to Svelte because of what happened to Angular. I switched to Vue because of Angular's 1.x to 2+ upgrade. Then I was faced with the Vue 2 to Vue 3 upgrade, which now has a lot of my code in a state of mess. Svelte has always looked so promising, just what I wanted. But my fear is that if I ditch Vue and jump to Svelte, it will do the same thing as any other framework did: become a monster and c…

Svelte already did that migration from 2 to 3. I don't think the fundamentals changing is anything to worry about now.
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