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Why It’s OK to Block Ads (2015)

blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk

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Re: Why It’s OK to Block Ads (2015)

#31

Post by simion314 »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #10
simion314 wrote: post #3

A women told in a comment that after around 13 years old she would get ads on Facebook to become a cam girl. So FB with all the data they have on their user still pushed such a fucking ad to a child. I am expecting an ashole to respond and tell me that FB can\t afford to validate the ads they put in front of children and my premtive response is "Don't fucking put ads in fron of children, or at least put only the ones…

These things are only profitable at scale which is why humans will never be part of the process. With that said- it's not our problem that it doesn't scale. As it exists it is hurting people so something obviously needs to change. Platforms have a duty to uphold and shouldn't exist if they cannot even protect children from sex worker ads.

It hurts the companies that pay for placing the ads if FB or other giant does not give a shit that they target the wrong people. Putting some toy ads would maybe make more money but when you are a giant and have no competition your developers spend their time on shitty projects that improve their CV.

Re: Why It’s OK to Block Ads (2015)

#32

Post by blibble »

sushibowl wrote: post #7

I feel like any argument that starts with the idea that blocking ads is unethical would inevitably lead to that black mirror episode where the ad pauses if you close your eyes or look away, and you must pay to skip it. Closing your eyes is just another ad blocking measure, and the idea that that would be unethical ought to be utterly preposterous.

> that black mirror episode where the ad pauses if you close your eyes or look away, and you must pay to skip it.

if you have sky TV it has a DVR that lets you record programmes

but if you want to fast forward through the ads in programmes you have recorded you have to pay a monthly fee

https://www.sky.com/help/articles/ad-skipping

I expect the camera that tracks you leaving the room will be in the next generation

Re: Why It’s OK to Block Ads (2015)

#33

Post by commmentator »

Tenoke wrote: post #21
float_laugh wrote: post #20

I have a degree in marketing, took a vow never to work in it, and use these words to describe advertisements - Motivated deception, manipulation, mind control, inauthentic, inorganic, insincere, a betrayal by your peers. They're using your own mind against you with psycological techniques you're blind to. Behind every advertisement is a group of real life people working hard to find new ways to control and manipulate…

> Why on Earth wouldn't you do everything in your power to block these people? I block ads myself, but if I didn't it'd be because it's the only wildly prevalent, fairly minimal hassle way to make micro-payments to a service/content I'm benefiting from.

> it's the only wildly prevalent, fairly minimal hassle way to make micro-payments to a service/content I'm benefiting from.

To see the absurdity of this position just replace "view ads" with the following:

I would stop content creators from breaking into my home and taking money from my wallet in the middle of the night, but I don't because it's the only wildly prevalent, fairly minimal hassle way to make micro-payments to a service/content I'm benefiting from.

It is not the responsibility of consumer to accept harmful practices because they're the only practices in broad use.

Re: Why It’s OK to Block Ads (2015)

#36

Post by concinds »

actionfromafar wrote: post #18
concinds wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if she lied about her age when signing up to FB. I know I did, and most people I know did too (back when we actually used FB). I don't believe FB ever allowed users younger than 13 due to COPPA (passed in 2000) and she clearly used it before turning 13. For context FB always asked for users' birthday during signup.

Am I the only one who thinks FB would easily: a) "implement" COPPA by using the sign-up form b) don't care that the profiling of a user leads to showing ads that would fit a 10-year old c) don't care when other ads clash with the profile consistent of a 10-year old d) plausible deniability Q.E.D

FB said in SEC filings that many young people lie about their age when signing up; independent research I've found confirms that FB uses self-reported age for ad targeting (https://www.demogr.mpg.de/papers/working/wp-2021-006.pdf). British authorities say more than 80% of children lie about their age (https://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/jul/26/children-lie-a...). More search shows that parents often encourage their kids to lie about their age when signing up (https://journals.uic.edu/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/3850/...), presumably under the belief that it'll make them less likely to be targeted by predators. FB has used algorithms since 2011 to try to ban underage users (https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/12/technology/internet/12und...) but presumably there's an error rate, and it's bad PR for normal adult users to be asked to submit their ID/passport to keep access to their account, so it's a hard problem.

It's easy to paint FB employees as cravenly evil cartoon characters, but most FB ads (except ones from the biggest corporations) are "direct response", i.e. not focused on increasing brand awareness but on immediately funneling users to a sales page. FB doesn't benefit from underage kids, who have zero spending ability, from seeing direct response ads (obviously, brand awareness ads on underage people are hugely effective, however), it just messes up their ad targeting. It seems to be a hard problem to solve when you consider all factors.

Re: Why It’s OK to Block Ads (2015)

#37

Post by desindol »

float_laugh wrote: post #20

I have a degree in marketing, took a vow never to work in it, and use these words to describe advertisements - Motivated deception, manipulation, mind control, inauthentic, inorganic, insincere, a betrayal by your peers. They're using your own mind against you with psycological techniques you're blind to. Behind every advertisement is a group of real life people working hard to find new ways to control and manipulate…

No. This is the marketers fever dream real life is way more dumb and ego driven. I am in advertising for over 20 years now doing international campaigns from Nike to Burger King from 100k to 80mil per pop. These things are way less elaborate, way less deceive and way less impacting as you make it out to be.

Ah yes the nerd reality distortion down votes. HN really is a shithole.

Re: Why It’s OK to Block Ads (2015)

#39

Post by IvanK_net »

It is okay because website creators tolerate it. Once all website owners stop tolerating it, everybody would have to watch ads.

Just like if at the grocery store, you could choose to pay or not pay. It would be totally okay not to pay. But if the number of non-paying customers grew too much, the owners would make it mandatory to pay. This did not happen to the web yet.

Re: Why It’s OK to Block Ads (2015)

#40

Post by phh »

Tenoke wrote: post #21
float_laugh wrote: post #20

I have a degree in marketing, took a vow never to work in it, and use these words to describe advertisements - Motivated deception, manipulation, mind control, inauthentic, inorganic, insincere, a betrayal by your peers. They're using your own mind against you with psycological techniques you're blind to. Behind every advertisement is a group of real life people working hard to find new ways to control and manipulate…

> Why on Earth wouldn't you do everything in your power to block these people? I block ads myself, but if I didn't it'd be because it's the only wildly prevalent, fairly minimal hassle way to make micro-payments to a service/content I'm benefiting from.

Yup. That's the reason I kept 2011-2021 without ad blockers. But yeah I could no longer live in that hell.

Fwiw ads have more properties than just being micro payments. Another property is that the price is a monotonic growing function of your revenues, so """every viewer contribute with how much they can"""

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