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Our attention span is being robbed

unstructed.tech

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Re: Our attention span is being robbed

#111

Post by ux-app »

Groxx wrote: post #107
ux-app wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve come to believe it’s really that simple. It's really not though. These apps are addictive! There's a real effort required to drop them and many(most?) people don't have what it takes to kick the habit. I installed TikTok a few months ago to see what all the fuss was about. That shit is ADDICTIVE man. Even to me, a middle aged grump, who doesn't use any social media. I had to uninstall the app a month later as…

It can be both. They can be intentionally and powerfully addictive... and finding a way to develop a resistance to it can still be the most practical/effective option. Regardless, it's in your best interest to work towards a resistance. These kinds of businesses aren't going to change things until they're forced to, and no matter what that'll take time, and they'll probably just come back in new and exciting ways eve…

>Regardless, it's in your best interest to work towards a resistance.

Uninstalling the app was a 100% effective solution.

Re: Our attention span is being robbed

#112

Post by nso95 »

askafriend wrote: post #3

People said the same thing about TV (and before that, newspapers/radio). With any new technology, societies will overdo it when it's new and then eventually find some happy-medium. You're seeing this happen now with more awareness around social media overuse or digital detoxes being more in vogue. People are slowly finding their happy medium. Fear not, it's all a part of the natural course of things.

Maybe those with the more extreme views expressing their opinions is a necessary part of the process of society arriving at that balance.

Re: Our attention span is being robbed

#113

Post by chrsig »

bszupnick wrote: post #89
JackFr wrote: post #79

I’m sympathetic to this argument to some extent… And yet… Just choose to read a book. Drop Facebook. Stop reading Twitter and scrolling through TikTok. I’ve come to believe it’s really that simple. Or don’t. Totally up to you. But the idea that something is being done to you is both seductive and lazy. Take responsibility, act intentionally and don’t worry about it.

I think I intuitively agree with you, but I don't think it's as simple as "just do X and don't do Y". It's akin to saying "Just choose to read a book. Drop heroin". We'd like to think we have such control, but the fact is that these things are addictive and one can't simply "just stop" without a process and a culture that promotes these processes.

willpowering is a bad way to change any behavior. It's more or less a setup for failure.

There are definitely ways to prepare and change a behavior with intention

- limit time per day. if you find yourself going over, thats ok, note it, and put the phone down.

- try uninstalling the app entirely -- make it harder for yourself to get the fix

- schedule other activities that require you to be in the moment

- give yourself positive reinforcement when you succeed. don't beat yourself up if you don't.

- set very small goals, when you meet them, set some more very small goals

> It's akin to saying "Just choose to read a book. Drop heroin".

Sans the physical addition of heroin. You wont die from not getting to tweet at other twits. You wont die from binging after trying to stop tweeting, either.

Re: Our attention span is being robbed

#114

Post by barrell »

ux-app wrote: post #98
JackFr wrote: post #79

I’m sympathetic to this argument to some extent… And yet… Just choose to read a book. Drop Facebook. Stop reading Twitter and scrolling through TikTok. I’ve come to believe it’s really that simple. Or don’t. Totally up to you. But the idea that something is being done to you is both seductive and lazy. Take responsibility, act intentionally and don’t worry about it.

> I’ve come to believe it’s really that simple. It's really not though. These apps are addictive! There's a real effort required to drop them and many(most?) people don't have what it takes to kick the habit. I installed TikTok a few months ago to see what all the fuss was about. That shit is ADDICTIVE man. Even to me, a middle aged grump, who doesn't use any social media. I had to uninstall the app a month later as…

While I understand your point, reading a good book can also be addictive. Far more than any technology I use. I have to enforce reading bans on myself when I have a big deadline because I will sacrifice work, sleep, and gym to get to the end of a good book.

To anyone reading this wanting to switch their habits, find some “booktubers” who have recommendations you like, follow them, and try to train your phones algorithms to show you that content. Try some of their recs. I can almost guarantee there are books out there that will grab your attention and be far more memorable than any TikTok videos

Re: Our attention span is being robbed

#115

Post by maxbond »

JackFr wrote: post #79

I’m sympathetic to this argument to some extent… And yet… Just choose to read a book. Drop Facebook. Stop reading Twitter and scrolling through TikTok. I’ve come to believe it’s really that simple. Or don’t. Totally up to you. But the idea that something is being done to you is both seductive and lazy. Take responsibility, act intentionally and don’t worry about it.

I have had times where I have decided to close YouTube Shorts and been unsuccessful for an hour and a half after I made the decision. I have not had a problem to nearly this extent with other applications, and I'm not even enjoying myself while I do it (my YouTube Shorts recommendation stream gets worse and worse the longer I scroll, and seems to get sucked into a really disturbing attractor of the most vile forms of misogyny and straight up rape advocacy I've ever seen, no matter what I do - thumbing things down, reporting them, not interacting with them at all, nothing seems to make a difference. Creating a new account gives me a fresh start but it gets sucked right back to that attractor. Presumably because of my demographics.). It reminds me of something someone once told me, that the scariest thing about cocaine for them was that they didn't like the way it made them feel, but that they would do it anyway when given the opportunity. (I'm not trying to say these things are equivalent, of course they aren't.)

We are not perfect rational agents. Our attention span is hackable. If you find yourself largely immune to this, you have my congratulations, but your experience is not the only one.

Re: Our attention span is being robbed

#116

Post by wincy »

sbmthakur wrote: post #41
wincy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family has taken inspiration from Orthodox Jews. At sunset we take all our devices and put them in a cabinet, turned off. Nobody can even call us on the phone. We have a big fancy dinner with fancy silverware and invite people over. Nobody is allowed to have their devices turned on. Until sunset on Sunday we just hang out or do whatever we wanted to do anyway, just with zero screens. We end up reading books, playi…

What if a friend/relative/acquaintance wants to contact you for an emergency?

If it’s that big of an emergency they’ll come to my house. If it’s not that important it can wait. Being able to let go of that constant paranoia is part of why we’ve started doing this.

Re: Our attention span is being robbed

#117

Post by ge96 »

JackFr wrote: post #79

I’m sympathetic to this argument to some extent… And yet… Just choose to read a book. Drop Facebook. Stop reading Twitter and scrolling through TikTok. I’ve come to believe it’s really that simple. Or don’t. Totally up to you. But the idea that something is being done to you is both seductive and lazy. Take responsibility, act intentionally and don’t worry about it.

On weekends I make a point not to open any social media and immediately go heads down into my project. I only look at fun web stuff after I'm mentally spent.

Re: Our attention span is being robbed

#118

Post by dmje »

The irony of spending time on an article about attention that covers no new ground and is all noise, very little signal...

If you do want a take on attention that is pretty interesting I'd recommend Stolen Focus[1] by Johann Hari.

Hari suggests there are lots of factors at play - he claims some of them are in our control, but many aren't. He looks into tech dark patterns, context switching, ADHD, sleep and a whole bunch of other factors.

Recommend it, I found it fascinating and like his writing style too.

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57933306-stolen-focus

Re: Our attention span is being robbed

#119

Post by maxbond »

ux-app wrote: post #111
Groxx wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be both. They can be intentionally and powerfully addictive... and finding a way to develop a resistance to it can still be the most practical/effective option. Regardless, it's in your best interest to work towards a resistance. These kinds of businesses aren't going to change things until they're forced to, and no matter what that'll take time, and they'll probably just come back in new and exciting ways eve…

>Regardless, it's in your best interest to work towards a resistance. Uninstalling the app was a 100% effective solution.

ETA: I missed that you seem to be saying it was 100% effective _for you_, I misread you as saying it was 100% effective in general; my bad.

No it isn't. For instance I recently tried to uninstall YouTube and my Android phone wouldn't let me (I know that I could move to a different distribution, but this is not high on my priorities list or something I want to mess with when I'm trying to relax, and many people wouldn't know where to begin). I've had periods where I uninstall and reinstall Twitter several times in a day.

It's helpful but it is not a panacea

Re: Our attention span is being robbed

#120

Post by tomcam »

> Books are supposed to be source of INFORMATION. A source of WISDOM. They are LONG because they are supposed to express the author’s point if view.

Meh. How many nonfiction books have you read that had 15 pages' worth of valuable insight packed into 250? Often they're too long due to the economics of publishing. The truth is, the perceived value of a 15 page pamphlet isn't the same as a nicely bound book. No one's going to risk publishing just the valuable portion.

I think many people are now circulating those 15 pages as blog posts, TikTok videos, LinkedIn articles, etc. Few make money on books in the trad publishing scheme.

Conversely, I kind of don't mind the lack of attention span in others. In the cases where it's to your advantage to have the attention span to read a book, being able to do so is a powerful competitive advantage. And reading books is one of easiest things to do in this brutal world.

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