It seems to me that open source/ free software might be in its death throes. Can anyone name a recent open source library or program that is widely used and community controlled beside Linux? Open source now mainly serves as a way for trillion dollar companies to pool resources to develop software they all need and minimize how many developers they need to hire (see Linux). We have seen again and again how open sourc…
If we are using Linux as a time frame reference then quite a few. PostgreSQL, Apache web server, python, and Blender are all younger than Linux.
We Are Changing the License for Akka
301–310 of 360 posts
Re: We Are Changing the License for Akka
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
An 8-core server? Please. Just my team uses 70 vCores (peak) in our Kubernetes cluster. Without a custom licensing agreement that's $140k/year. The whole company is bound to pay well over $500k/year. Furthermore, most people here (as usual) seem to be completely ignorant about what Akka is. The vast majority of Akka users only ever interact with Akka through other libraries that depend on it: Akka-HTTP, Akka-Streams,…
Since they aren't charging any companies that make less than $25 million a year this sounds reasonable. Most folks here don't seem to grasp the cost of most enterprise software, Oracle has been charging 10x this for decades now. https://www.oracle.com/assets/technology-price-list-070617.p...
Re: We Are Changing the License for Akka
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
If we are using Linux as a time frame reference then quite a few. PostgreSQL, Apache web server, python, and Blender are all younger than Linux.
Are you sure? PostgreSQL/Postgres was started before 1986 as successor to Ingres, while Python was released in February, 1991 (vs Linux in September, 1991), based on the older educational programming language ABC. Moreover, Apache httpd was based on NCSA Mosaic released in 1993, but it isn't clear when development started.
I guess I miss remembered python I thought it was 93 for some reason, maybe that is java.
Re: We Are Changing the License for Akka
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you give an example of GPL'd software that actually has such restrictions?
Cryptographic libraries might be okay right now but traditionally have had very widespread export controls. So, linux kernel and basically anything doing crypto. Anything with german authors has irrevocable control tied to that. If there's a GPL program that decrypts blurays it's likely a violation of the DMCA, not sure if one exists right now. For patents, there's tons. x264 is an easy one.
Re: We Are Changing the License for Akka
#305I only worked with the Akka ecosystem a little, but if I had made a major career or business investment in it I'd be pretty unhappy about this. There's nothing wrong with closed source software and I want the authors to make money. It's changing the terms on users that pulls the rug out from under people.
It is not changing the terms for the users of the current version of AKKA. You will be free to use your current version with whatever terms you already have. You can fork the current version, that's the whole idea of Open Source. But you cannot take away the rights of the AKKA team to create their commercial "fork" either. That much was clear from the beginning I assume. License does what it says it does, it doesn't…
> AKKA coming out with a commercial license does not make things worse for you
If I had invested my career in becoming an advocate for their product I'd now be worse off. It can't be introduced without going through legal and procurement. I can't take it home and build a small business without wondering what next year's pricing model will be.
I hope Akka's owners succeed. I also hope none of the tools I invest my time learning and introducing at work do this.
Re: We Are Changing the License for Akka
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cryptographic libraries might be okay right now but traditionally have had very widespread export controls. So, linux kernel and basically anything doing crypto. Anything with german authors has irrevocable control tied to that. If there's a GPL program that decrypts blurays it's likely a violation of the DMCA, not sure if one exists right now. For patents, there's tons. x264 is an easy one.
But none of those restrictions are caused by the author's choice of license.
Re: We Are Changing the License for Akka
#307That’s going to pull the rug from underneath the whole of Scala ecosystem. There are so many major top level Scala libraries using Akka one way or another. Basically, anything containing Akka at those new versions cannot be used without breaking Akka license.
Re: We Are Changing the License for Akka
#308That’s going to pull the rug from underneath the whole of Scala ecosystem. There are so many major top level Scala libraries using Akka one way or another. Basically, anything containing Akka at those new versions cannot be used without breaking Akka license.
Not entirely true, Play framework for example will continue to depend on Akka without restrictions placed on its users -- mentioned in the blog post, see "usage grant".
The problem with what’s happening is that for software in Scala, as soon as I see Akka anywhere in my dependencies, I have to assume license violation. Of course, I can check if that particular dependency has a grant. But will there be a formal method to validate this? Will automated license scanners be able to infer this?
Another point… what does the grant actually imply. Is there some sort of way a product with Akka-dependent dependency supposed to be used? Will people be able to work around BSL by pulling in a dependency that brings Akka in just as a mechanism to sneak Akka itself in? That would be a silly oversight by Lightbend[1]
[1] the faq answers this: “ I am using Play and parts of Akka that are included with Play? If you are using Play and are directly using Akka components as part of your implementation you will be required to have a license for production use.”
As someone who came to Scala from Erlang and adopted Scala because of Akka, … it’s disappointing. Fortunately alternatives exist and hopefully someone will adapt them for Scala. Here’s one: http://docs.paralleluniverse.co/quasar/. This is used by Clojure’s Pulsar Erlang-influenced actors. For me, this is the end of the road for Akka in any future Scala code. It’s a shame because the technology is great. However, maintenance is going to become a hassle.
From an observer’s perspective: Typesafe, later Lightbend, never managed to find a great fit for themselves. They always kept developing Akka and promote Akka-based systems like all the alpakka stuff, http, streams. People used it because it was Apache 2.0. Now, everyone who uses Akka, and wants to continue using it, has a liability on their hands. What about all contributions submitted under the old license? The FAQ doesn’t specify if existing code will be BSL and convert to Apache 2.0 in 3 years (or maybe more, faq says each version may have its own convert date…), or only new code will be BSL. Depending on the answer, some contributors may feel a bit let down: https://github.com/akka/alpakka/graphs/contributors?from=201.... They all contributed under Apache 2.0.
So many questions, it’s a minefield. In my head, this is a minefield worse that AGPL. Their faq says a company with a revenue below USD25m/annum receives a free license. What if said company sells to a USD100m business and is using Akka indirectly? Forget about direct, explicit use. What if a product uses stuff indirectly?
Re: We Are Changing the License for Akka
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not entirely true, Play framework for example will continue to depend on Akka without restrictions placed on its users -- mentioned in the blog post, see "usage grant".
Okay, so Play Framework has this grant now in place. But everything else? Each and every maintainer is required to request such grant, and Lightbend needs to agree. Friction, a lot of friction. The problem with what’s happening is that for software in Scala, as soon as I see Akka anywhere in my dependencies, I have to assume license violation. Of course, I can check if that particular dependency has a grant. But will…
Re: We Are Changing the License for Akka
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
> about competitors providing a better service The point is you can NOT outcompete Amazon on that as a smaller company. They have economics of scale on their side, brand recognition, marketing budget, the whole AWS ecosystem that locks developers in. Even if you offered a better and cheaper service (which is not really realistic) then most customers would stick to AWS because they are hosting everything else on it an…
> The point is you can NOT outcompete Amazon on that as a smaller company. It looks to me that AWS only has around 30% of the cloud market, and CloudFlare is outcompeting AWS in some market segments oddly enough due to things like CloudFlare Worker's, which are developed from the V8 engine which is as FLOSS as it gets. It looks like behind the thin veil of a badly formed "unfair competition" argument, there's only an…
> irrational concern that revenue should be tied to rights to access software developed by a third-party
It's the rational concern that major developers of widely-used software should be paid.