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How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

mattdeboard.net

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Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#151

Post by nhangen »

mattdeboard wrote: post #87
viscanti wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest problem with the article is that it's essentially a puff piece about how awesome the writer thinks he is, and how special he is for being able to learn the basics in a short amount of time. The post is entirely too hand-wavy about actual details; telling someone to read some blogs, Q&A sites and code doesn't help anyone. Where is the substance? Were there any interesting ah-ha moments? What would he do dif…

My blog has comments. My email address is in my HN profile. If you wanted more information you could've asked instead of insulting me.

Try separating yourself from the content for a moment and you'll see he isn't insulting you, but finding holes in your work.

One thing you'll notice here is that the community is very blunt, and often comes across as rude, but as a new hacker myself I've grown to appreciate the honesty.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#152

Post by jarek »

phektus wrote: post #141
ocdprogrammer wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be honest and realistic for a moment.There are lots of young and very enthusiastic programmers out there but at the same time there are some older and more cinical ones too.My feeling is that when the older/professional programmers read articles that seem to oversimplify their profession, they feel threatened somehow at a very low level.And personally i can understand them and I feel the same sometimes. I feel…

Don't be. There are still barriers to entry in the profession. Sure one can cook up simple apps and google everything else after just weeks of learning, but if you sit down with somebody for a while you'll know and feel the difference. Which maybe the reason why more and more programmers are becoming entrepreneurs - management and other 'clients' usually have a poor eye on talent (esp. the young ones... you see the t…

Of course management have a poor eye for programming talent. It's not their field.

Would you know a good mechanical engineer if you could only interview them for two hours and maybe see some of their past work? A good massage therapist? A good financial planner?

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#153

Post by ocdprogrammer »

mseebach wrote: post #149
ocdprogrammer wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be honest and realistic for a moment.There are lots of young and very enthusiastic programmers out there but at the same time there are some older and more cinical ones too.My feeling is that when the older/professional programmers read articles that seem to oversimplify their profession, they feel threatened somehow at a very low level.And personally i can understand them and I feel the same sometimes. I feel…

If we truly have senior members of the software community who feels threatened by a guy who picked up the basics of their trade in 12 weeks, they are perfect examples of why we should not have barriers to entry to our profession. If you, after doing something for five+ years, isn't demonstrably a lot better at it than the guy who did it for 12 weeks, you have thoroughly squandered the opportunity given to you and, ye…

It goes the other way too.. If we truly have lots of software companies that prefer to employ and exploit juniors and put the quality and safety of their products on the last place for some bucks, companies that don't distinguish the capable from the wannabe's or simply don't want very capable people because of the fear that they will ask for better conditions, payments or promotions, companies that pay ridiculous wages while the enthusiastic geeks build platforms that will bring hundreds of thousands of $ to millions of $, then I think you will agree the programmers have to protect themselves somehow too.But they don't.Perhaps in US the demand for programmers is still high and u didn't experience the predatory software industry yet.But never mind.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#154

Post by jarek »

Volpe wrote: post #84
gradstudent wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A programmer is language agnostic and has a deep understanding of both algorithms and computation. I find the term para-programmer to be an apt description of anyone else. Why is this on the front page btw? Aren't we all hackers here? What makes this news?

Maybe a grad student has those things ( ;) ), but once you realise computers aren't the hard part about building software, you realise that there are a whole host of skills you need to be a successful programmer, that have nothing to do with algorithms or computation. If all you have is a strong understanding of algorithms and computation... your just a computer geek. Doesn't make you a good 'programmer' (in the sens…

> If all you have is a strong understanding of algorithms and computation... your just a computer geek. Doesn't make you a good 'programmer' (in the sense that you can produce something someone wants).

I think y'all are all using different terms (and I notice the parts-of-HN undercurrent of "technical skills don't matter, you need to be social and build products, startup pivot founder startup" but I digress).

To me, someone who can use algorithms et al is a "programmer", which is largely orthogonal to being able to produce something someone wants, call them a developer or something. Not every programmer has to be social client facing; getting detailed functional specs and creating good code to fulfill those specs absolutely does make one a programmer.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#155

Post by jarek »

vkatluri wrote: post #80
mattdeboard wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very surprised confused and disappointed at the parochialism here.

It's probably because you scare them. Here are people who have spent several years in school to gain a certificate that shows they know how to program. You may never be a competition to them in the job market but the knowledge that someone spent close to 12 weeks (not even a semester) and was able to land a basic job programming is probably rubbing their sense of entitlement the wrong way. Me personally, I have a M.S…

I am certain most HN readers who are expressing negative sentiments here and who have spent several years in school feel very threatened by a Django coder.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#156

Post by kristiandupont »

ocdprogrammer wrote: post #138
postfuturist wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, the condescension is nauseating. It's extremely rude to tell someone who writes software as a day job and who is so enthusiastic about it that he is not a real programmer. Sure, he's closer to the beginning than the end of his journey as a programmer, but so what? He jumped in head-first, and just wanted to share that joy. I have to take a break from HN. Sometimes this community is a real downer.

Let's be honest and realistic for a moment.There are lots of young and very enthusiastic programmers out there but at the same time there are some older and more cinical ones too.My feeling is that when the older/professional programmers read articles that seem to oversimplify their profession, they feel threatened somehow at a very low level.And personally i can understand them and I feel the same sometimes. I feel…

I live in Europe and I don't see how it's different here than anywhere else. The great thing about programming is that it allows you to be an entrepreneur regardless of your geographical location. Nobody can "crush" me except the market if I'm not smart enough.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#157

Post by kristiandupont »

mattdeboard wrote: post #100
cmagahern wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he was trying to be insulting. From what I gather, he was trying to justify the negativity theme in the comments for this post, which was the subject of the original comment. I agree that the blog post was not detailed enough, and didn't talk enough about HOW you became a programmer in 12 weeks.

What kind of information do you mean? I programmed, asked questions, programmed, read source code, and programmed. There's zero magic. I learned in the same way all human beings learn. We're knowledge workers. I gained enough programming knowledge to be a programmer. Where's the confusion?

Being a programmer myself, this is a bit theoretical but I think if I wasn't and I sat down to read an article names "How I became a Programmer", I would expect a couple of pointers to where to start, what to do and how to do it.

Besides from the point about learning a language rather than a framework, your post mostly says "It took me 12 week to learn programming" and that the way to do it is the obvious: read stuff, try stuff etc.

There is nothing wrong with this of course, but given the headline, especially here on HN, I can see why some might feel that they didn't quite get their money's worth.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#158

Post by ocdprogrammer »

kristiandupont wrote: post #156
ocdprogrammer wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be honest and realistic for a moment.There are lots of young and very enthusiastic programmers out there but at the same time there are some older and more cinical ones too.My feeling is that when the older/professional programmers read articles that seem to oversimplify their profession, they feel threatened somehow at a very low level.And personally i can understand them and I feel the same sometimes. I feel…

I live in Europe and I don't see how it's different here than anywhere else. The great thing about programming is that it allows you to be an entrepreneur regardless of your geographical location. Nobody can "crush" me except the market if I'm not smart enough.

No irony or sarcasm here but I would love to get some links or directions towards startup hubs in europe.I'm interested in attending conferences for young entrepreneurs or events like this.If they are very few or almost none, then I see myself forced to conclude that europe it's a bit different (than USA at least). Sorry for running off topic.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#159

Post by kristiandupont »

kunley wrote: post #82
libria wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He learned some Python, Django, HTML, CSS, Javascript and wrote programs. Can "programmer" not encompass both people getting their feet wet and 20 years experience mastering multiple languages?

He hasn't made any hard choices, he just picked what is most available and put the pieces together. Frankly he'd have bought me if he made his hands dirty with some obscure 8bit assembler. There he'd have to really THINK his way out. At least some sweat during rolling his own data structures and algos around them would make him something in a shape of a programmer, but not this. Of course what he's done is cool, lear…

Hacking is not a well defined word and you obviously subscribe to a different definition than I do.

If he had started with some 8bit assembler I would simply think that he has a very poor approach towards learning.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#160

Post by mattdeboard »

nhangen wrote: post #151
mattdeboard wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My blog has comments. My email address is in my HN profile. If you wanted more information you could've asked instead of insulting me.

Try separating yourself from the content for a moment and you'll see he isn't insulting you, but finding holes in your work. One thing you'll notice here is that the community is very blunt, and often comes across as rude, but as a new hacker myself I've grown to appreciate the honesty.

Buddy I was a Marine for over ten years and spent years in combat zones. There is a difference between bluntness/honesty and disrespect/rudeness, and I am well acquainted with what that line looks like.
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