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Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

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Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#191

Post by profile53 »

kev33 wrote: post #169
duffpkg wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthcare is such a base layer of the economy, I find comparisons to be extraordinaly difficult between countries. On the most basic level our pathway to becoming a healthcare provider of all sorts is dramatically more expensive and limited than other countries, what healthcare providers are paid is dramatically more than other countries, we invest many times per capita what other countries put into basic medical re…

Quoted post unavailable.

This reads as very hostile. Someone is taking time out of their day, for free, to answer questions and provide context.

Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#192

Post by jcadam »

bottlepalm wrote: post #102

This is the real solution to healthcare costs and quality. Instead of the government handing hospitals a blank check for low quality services in a single payer scenario, we allow price transparency, competition and the free market to drive down costs and increase quality. Hate him if you want, but this was a huge accomplishment by Trump that has just started to take effect. If you think the government can bring down…

You had to know you'd be downvoted mercilessly for that, comrade.

Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#193

Post by iancmceachern »

duffpkg wrote: post #70

I'm author of Hacking Healthcare for O'Reilly, 20 year health system executive, blah, blah. It's very easy for people to forget the scale of the US "health system", we are talking 1/5, maybe more, of the entire US economy. If US healthcare spending were a country, it would have the third largest GDP in the world. Accidents of history and the massive federal beauracracy created the crazy monster of ICD/CPT codes that…

I've worked in the medical device industry for 20 years and have a similar takeaway. I often describe it as the "hospital insurance company industrial complex".

Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#194

Post by groby_b »

dominotw wrote: post #171
Barrin92 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

beyond Europe as well. Singapore which has exceptionally low healthcare spending (5.9% of GDP) heavily controls prices and purchases down to individual equipment in hospitals.

> Singapore which has exceptionally low healthcare spending yea because they have healthy population, its not because of some smart govt policy( if only it was that easy). singapore obesity rate = 10% usa obesity rate = 42 % usa obesity healthcare spend = 90%

That 90% number is plain not true. Please cite any source for that.

The costs for obese folk are on average 90%-100% higher than for non-obese folk, but that's not 90% of total spending. (See e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33470881/)

Total cost approaches 20% of spending: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesi...

Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#195

Post by bombcar »

willcipriano wrote: post #108
e_i_pi_2 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah thanks for making me look this up! Seems like it did change recently (Jan 1, 2021) https://www.cms.gov/hospital-price-transparency Now assuming the hospital is compliant the information should be available. To be fair my understanding of the argument for the old law was that you didn't want a hospital with a big sign out front saying "Broken arm repair: $10k" and having people not go in for it when there might be…

I'm sure the real reason is that the hospital up the road will set up a sign "Broken arm repair: $9k" to compete and that isn't something the lobbyists want.

What I see around here are billboards with the current emergency room wait time on them in digital LEDs.

Which often struck me as kind of weird - the rooms with shortest wait time are probably most expens

Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#196

Post by notch656a »

dominotw wrote: post #171
Barrin92 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

beyond Europe as well. Singapore which has exceptionally low healthcare spending (5.9% of GDP) heavily controls prices and purchases down to individual equipment in hospitals.

> Singapore which has exceptionally low healthcare spending yea because they have healthy population, its not because of some smart govt policy( if only it was that easy). singapore obesity rate = 10% usa obesity rate = 42 % usa obesity healthcare spend = 90%

My state has a "stupid motorist" law that requires people who negligently put their vehicles in danger and then use state resources to get bailed out, to pay for the rescue themselves. Perhaps we could create a "stupid eater law" for medicare/medicaid, forcing obese people etc to pay for their own private health insurance or healthcare which would free up money for others to buy more healthcare privately (via lower tax burden). My families healthcare would definitely be more affordable if I weren't burdened paying for the negligent actions of others.

Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#198

Post by xyzzy123 »

duffpkg wrote: post #89
e_i_pi_2 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you consider the amount that the US spends per capita on healthcare relative to other countries for the same standard of care a "failure" of the healthcare industry? Or is there some other reason healthcare "just costs more" here? Also wondering what you think a solution is - single-payer for better and simpler price negotiations, or some other approach? My main concern is if we're spending 20% of GDP on something…

Healthcare is such a base layer of the economy, I find comparisons to be extraordinaly difficult between countries. On the most basic level our pathway to becoming a healthcare provider of all sorts is dramatically more expensive and limited than other countries, what healthcare providers are paid is dramatically more than other countries, we invest many times per capita what other countries put into basic medical re…

It's a confusopoly!

They're most obvious with "basic" products like energy and comms - in theory what is delivered is mostly undifferentiated kWh or GB but through the magic of "confusing plans", marketers have succeeded in making comparisons very difficult for regular people.

(You can do it, but you need OCD, a year of billing data and a spreadsheet - which greatly exceeds the cognitive effort most people will invest in choosing a mobile or energy provider).

The US healthcare sector seems to be the largest, most intricate and most successful (in terms of gdp extraction) confusopoly in history.

Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#199

Post by galangalalgol »

duffpkg wrote: post #99
linkdink wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your opinion, what would be the lowest hanging fruit that could be changed to have the largest positive impact?

People are rarely satisfied with this answer but its demonstrably true and was proven time and time again at the facilities ClearHealth managed. 1) Feverent, almost religious, adherence to hand washing. 2) No neck ties or dangly sleves whatsoever in buildings that house patients. 3) Change from stainless steel hardware for doors and travel touch surfaces back to "brass/copper". Those are simple, virtually free, thing…

What about the incentive for non profit hospitals to grow so that they can better compensate leadership, resulting in capital that must be spent on facilities and equipment to retain non profit status. Leading to a spiral?

It is hard to compare details of the systems and outcomes across countries, but surely we can find where the money apent ends up? Construction firms? Doctors? Equipment manufacturers? Hospital administration?

Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#200

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

Barrin92 wrote: post #129
mikem170 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Across the board price controls seem to be a common to the various European health care systems. It is my understanding that upper limits are set for the cost of medicine. There is quite a bit of variety across Europe - U.K. is 100% government run, France is a public/private mix, Germany is similar to Obamacare in some ways, others are single payer, apparently some are private, also. But I've read that they all have…

beyond Europe as well. Singapore which has exceptionally low healthcare spending (5.9% of GDP) heavily controls prices and purchases down to individual equipment in hospitals.

Singapore has a population of 5.6 million. USA has a population of 330 million. How would you control prices and purchases at that level?
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