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Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

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Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#21
post #13
post #9

that's not how an archive should work. but perhaps Internet Archive is not an archive and it doesn't want to be one.

So if they scrape a kiddie porn site, they should keep that publicly available in perpetuity? That's not how the world works.

This comparison summons the Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#22
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Popular endorsement of harassment to the point of suicide seems like a worse sign, personally. When it comes to threats to freedom of expression, I'm much more concerned about the religious right's abuse of government authority to censor education, ban books, and suppress the vote, than I am about private institutions taking steps to protect human life.

Private institutions have every right to stand behind whoever they choose. As a user, I have no intention of using Cloudflare because (even as a queer individual) I don't feel safe using a platform that would censor me if enough people were mad enough. I would much rather choose a platform that stands by their TOS as-written, instead of stepping in to arbitrate on a case-by-case basis. Cloudflare has ever right to op…

OK, but there is literally no business in the universe that won't drop you as a customer if you cause them enough trouble.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#23

Whoa, I thought they were almost completely neutral to these sort of issues. I guess not.

A few years ago, they realized it would be in the public archival interest to ignore robots.txt for gov/mil sites, and then possibly more types of sites. They have long had a manual process for submitting takedown requests by email; here's someone on reddit who claimed to have successfully gotten a page (presumably not under their control) removed from the archive [1]

[0] https://blog.archive.org/2017/04/17/robots-txt-meant-for-sea...

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/eut3na/can_i_get_p...

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#24
post #15

This is ridiculous and has been a cascade of awful precedents for the Internet. This is legitimately an extremely bad sign of what's to come for the Internet's future.

Popular endorsement of harassment to the point of suicide seems like a worse sign, personally. When it comes to threats to freedom of expression, I'm much more concerned about the religious right's abuse of government authority to censor education, ban books, and suppress the vote, than I am about private institutions taking steps to protect human life.

No post body was provided.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#25
post #6

Wikipedia link for some background — I hadn’t heard of this before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms

Wikipedia is reliable to non-controversial topics only. Anything controversial is taken over by one side of the argument and only information that confirms that groups bias is allowed on the page.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#26
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private institutions have every right to stand behind whoever they choose. As a user, I have no intention of using Cloudflare because (even as a queer individual) I don't feel safe using a platform that would censor me if enough people were mad enough. I would much rather choose a platform that stands by their TOS as-written, instead of stepping in to arbitrate on a case-by-case basis. Cloudflare has ever right to op…

OK, but there is literally no business in the universe that won't drop you as a customer if you cause them enough trouble.

You'd think that, but historically this has only encouraged niche businesses to crop up catering to that crowd. Look at Epik (or Vultr) for example, businesses that exist solely to counter this kind of threat. Yes, they still reserve the right to remove abusive users, but that's defined by legal statutes and technical limitations rather than 'icky feelings'. Both services have a surprisingly solid track-record servicing the roughest of customers.

Failing all that, KiwiFarms doesn't need a business to stay afloat. The endgame for all of these so-called 'abusive platforms' is retreating to I2P/Tor, or another internet-adjacent network. To stop KiwiFarms from existing, you need to literally silence the people using it, not just shut down their clearnet website. Websites don't harass people, people do.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#28

Can somebody explain the back story? What is Kiwi Farms?

kf was the most accessible and moderated forum for gossip of internet personalities (mostly negative in the same way traditional gossip magazines are typically negative)

this recent action seems to be related to their long-running beef with a particularly well-connected transgender, over being the primary location for documentation on questionable activities like shipping hormone replacement drugs to minors

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#29
post #6

Wikipedia link for some background — I hadn’t heard of this before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms

Wikipedia is reliable to non-controversial topics only. Anything controversial is taken over by one side of the argument and only information that confirms that groups bias is allowed on the page.

On articles like that one, the Talk page is a far more realistic view of the subject than the actual page.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#30
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if they scrape a kiddie porn site, they should keep that publicly available in perpetuity? That's not how the world works.

This comparison summons the Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...

Not really. It's a clear demonstration that archives do not retain everything always. Whatever you read into it beyond that is on you.
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