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Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

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Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#41

I wonder what percentage of work in the US healthcare system is completely unnecessary from a general perspective but made necessary deliberately to justify the unethical system that allows millions to die unnecessarily.

Judging by the US's price/outcome ratio compared to other developed nations, a little over half[1]. [1] https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2022/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare...

Why that article points out the US spends $12k/capita on healthcare the singles out administrative costs at $1k/capita while ignoring all the other relevant factors is beyond me. They then use the misleading infant mortality stat, ignoring that the US considers vastly more babies viable than any other country, meaning we try to save infants that other countries write off, thus they count against the US when it fails, but not against the other countries that don't count them as viable. It's a really poor article ignoring important nuance in what it presents.

The US pays about twice per nurse or doctor in the system, and part of that is because the US pays nearly twice for most skilled work. So, to get prices like most other developed nations, we would be forced to cut nurse and doctor salaries, which would likely lower quality of workers as future workers went to more lucrative fields, which would likely lower outcomes.

The US can have higher cost or lower quality. How would you make this tradeoff?

Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#42
post #32

I'm the author. A question I have is: how did so many prices ever get negotiated in the first place? What kind of systems are in place to do this kind of micro-negotiation?

They aren't negotiated individually. They are negotiated categorically. They generate individual prices based on some discount rate off of a negotiated max.

Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#43
I work in data at https://www.carrumhealth.com/, and I've been parsing this data for weeks. The transparency prices allow us to meaningfully negotiate with providers, and make tangible, incremental progress toward cheaper health care. Providers and existing insurance carriers leverage information asymmetry to control the market otherwise.

For context, we bundle the 100's of itemized costs into a single, static bill per surgery type. In doing so, we've built a custom virtual-network with the most efficient surgeons. These surgeons are able to meet the volume and quality requirements to allow for lower margins. We're able to get negotiated rates that are 10-40% cheaper than traditional insurance contracts when we have data that we trust.

Unfortunately, this data alone isn't enough to properly determine prices because organizations will spread costs across procedure and billing codes that often occur in aggregate groups. For example, in a joint replacement surgery, some organizations may dump the cost into the billing for the implant itself, while others may put it under the procedure code. You have to gather billing data en masse to see which charges occur together, then combine this pricing data to determine what costs will actually look like for someone experiencing a procedure.

It's a nightmare!

Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#44
Someone with the right connections should call up Google Cloud and ask them to ingest the data into BigQuery as an example dataset like the NY taxi trips. It would be a great way for them to show off the capabilities of the engine and helpful for everyone wanting to do analysis on it.

https://cloud.google.com/bigquery/public-data

Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#45
post #36
post #32

I'm the author. A question I have is: how did so many prices ever get negotiated in the first place? What kind of systems are in place to do this kind of micro-negotiation?

Any time you can convert a problem from an `N x K` problem to an `N + K` problem, there's some asshole administrator trying to turn an `N + K` problem into an `N x K` problem. It wouldn't surprise me if there's huge amounts of redundant information in there.

> In the newly-released data, each "negotiated rate" (or simply "price") is associated with a lot of metadata, but it boils down to: who's paying, who's getting paid, what they're getting paid for, plus some extra fluff to keep track of versioning. The hundreds of billions of prices in the dataset (probably over a trillion) result from all the possible combinations of these things.

They basically denormalized all the dimensions.

Imagine you have a function which takes 5 arguments and returns one value. You could give me the source code and let me run this function. Or you could give me a mapping of every possible combination of the 5 inputs to the returned value. The former could be quite small, but the latter would be a massive number of rows.

Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#46
post #35
post #32

I'm the author. A question I have is: how did so many prices ever get negotiated in the first place? What kind of systems are in place to do this kind of micro-negotiation?

Super curious about this, too. Also! What did they do before they could store 100TB of pricing data? How has pricing (and care quality) changed as a result of being able to do this type of thing?

They are obviously not computing pricing this way. Their pricing system applies rules. But they are dumping every possible combination.

Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#49
post #43

I work in data at https://www.carrumhealth.com/ , and I've been parsing this data for weeks. The transparency prices allow us to meaningfully negotiate with providers, and make tangible, incremental progress toward cheaper health care. Providers and existing insurance carriers leverage information asymmetry to control the market otherwise. For context, we bundle the 100's of itemized costs into a single, static bill…

How much do you think it costs to maintain all these negotiated contracts VS just having a single payer system with the same price for all procedures?

Re: Health insurers just published close to a trillion hospital prices

#50
post #7

Anyone else get the feeling this is malicious compliance on behalf of the insurance companies? "Oh, they're going to force us to publish our prices are they? Well we'll publish so much data it'll take a herculean effort to make it readable to anyone that doesn't work in data engineering"

The article mentioned CSV files, it seems more like a reflection of what a huge bureaucracy the US healthcare system is. I liked their suggestion that the government should have created the database as part of the law, done the processing on the raw data, and made it more accessible.

In their defense, if it was anything but CSV files, they would be accused of making it too complicated/locking into proprietary formats and so on. I can't say CSV would be my first choice, but I don't really want to think what the alternative would be.
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