How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks • Hacker News Board

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#141

Post by phektus » Thu, Nov 24, 2011, 12:44 PM UTC

ocdprogrammer wrote: post #138

postfuturist wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, the condescension is nauseating. It's extremely rude to tell someone who writes software as a day job and who is so enthusiastic about it that he is not a real programmer. Sure, he's closer to the beginning than the end of his journey as a programmer, but so what? He jumped in head-first, and just wanted to share that joy. I have to take a break from HN. Sometimes this community is a real downer.

Let's be honest and realistic for a moment.There are lots of young and very enthusiastic programmers out there but at the same time there are some older and more cinical ones too.My feeling is that when the older/professional programmers read articles that seem to oversimplify their profession, they feel threatened somehow at a very low level.And personally i can understand them and I feel the same sometimes. I feel…

Don't be. There are still barriers to entry in the profession. Sure one can cook up simple apps and google everything else after just weeks of learning, but if you sit down with somebody for a while you'll know and feel the difference. Which maybe the reason why more and more programmers are becoming entrepreneurs - management and other 'clients' usually have a poor eye on talent (esp. the young ones... you see the theme here), and to really make the most out of your expertise the logical conclusion is to build your own company out of what you know.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#142

Post by phektus » Thu, Nov 24, 2011, 12:47 PM UTC

Mvandenbergh wrote: post #135

crikli wrote: post #108

I can play a few Megadeth riffs and I've written two very shitty songs. This does not make me a musician or a songwriter. It makes me a dude who can create noises that resemble music. The OP groks the basics and has learned how to use Django. This does not make him a programmer. It makes him a dude who can create code that resembles a program.

Sure, but if you were currently paid to make music then I think people would consider you a musician. You might be a shitty musician, an inexperienced musician, or whatever, but if you actually made your living doing it then I don't think that people would begrudge you the title.

People would say that he's more of an entertainer than a musician. This sort of debate also occurs in musician circles.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#143

Post by bretthoerner » Thu, Nov 24, 2011, 12:59 PM UTC

yelsgib wrote: post #122

mattdeboard wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of information do you mean? I programmed, asked questions, programmed, read source code, and programmed. There's zero magic. I learned in the same way all human beings learn. We're knowledge workers. I gained enough programming knowledge to be a programmer. Where's the confusion?

Where's the content?

Did you read the article?

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#144

Post by bretthoerner » Thu, Nov 24, 2011, 1:02 PM UTC

cfarnell wrote: post #71

From his blog a year ago: "... have just started back to school for computer science. I’ve been poking clumsily at programming for a few years, but only in the past few months have I actually started to take ideas of my own and successfully bring them to life. ... While I don’t think I can study an algorithm and announce its big Oh complexity, I’m getting there. ... going to school does take time away from my actuall…

He's talking about the past, not the last 12 weeks. I believe that post a year ago was very much inside the 12 weeks he's talking about.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#145

Post by bretthoerner » Thu, Nov 24, 2011, 1:02 PM UTC

rorrr wrote: post #25

Algorithms are not even mentioned. Data structures are not there either. Sorry, you're a django coder, not a programmer.

He became a programmer in 12 weeks, not a Computer Scientist. Get over it, he's being paid to program, he's a programmer.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#146

Post by mseebach » Thu, Nov 24, 2011, 1:08 PM UTC

dlf wrote: post #88

_gd3l wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. As a 17-year-old I've been able to run my own little freelance business. The internet = opportunity if you use it right.

Awesome. I wish I was doing this at 17. Ten years later I'm making up for lost time. Congrats for getting after it early!

To offer a counter-point, I was running a consulting business at 17 (OK, a little later) went from hack to hack and didn't even know I was failing to learn and improve myself. Ran up debt, and went through what in retrospect looks a lot like bouts of depression. Now, I'm going on 30 in my first "real" job and I feel like I'm making up for lost time.

There's no magic right way to do it.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#147

Post by mseebach » Thu, Nov 24, 2011, 1:22 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #86

You can certainly be a programmer in 12 weeks, but you will be different programmer than what we are expecting here. You can also learn programming by reading 'Learn programming in 30 days'. But that is a very different kind of programming than what most people are expecting in this thread. You can learn enough programming to begin to understand how to work with software. It gives you a start. It also works if your j…

Who are these "we" who has such well defined expectations of what kinds of programmers are allowed to participate here?

The guy sets a goal, works hard to achieve it, and succeeds. Win. More power to him. In fact I rather envy his ability to focus.

He's not even approaching a claim to understanding all the practical aspects of the industry or programming. He is humble and thirsty for more knowledge. He is a beginner, and if you look closely, I think you'll find that we've all been beginners.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#148

Post by cfarnell » Thu, Nov 24, 2011, 1:27 PM UTC

bretthoerner wrote: post #144

cfarnell wrote: post #71

From his blog a year ago: "... have just started back to school for computer science. I’ve been poking clumsily at programming for a few years, but only in the past few months have I actually started to take ideas of my own and successfully bring them to life. ... While I don’t think I can study an algorithm and announce its big Oh complexity, I’m getting there. ... going to school does take time away from my actuall…

He's talking about the past, not the last 12 weeks. I believe that post a year ago was very much inside the 12 weeks he's talking about.

In the article he says he learned programming from 2/11 to 5/11. I am glad he is successful but clearly his experience is far more than twelve weeks, so it is a bit disingenuous. That is too bad because it is a great story and needed no exaggeration.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#149

Post by mseebach » Thu, Nov 24, 2011, 1:34 PM UTC

ocdprogrammer wrote: post #138

postfuturist wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, the condescension is nauseating. It's extremely rude to tell someone who writes software as a day job and who is so enthusiastic about it that he is not a real programmer. Sure, he's closer to the beginning than the end of his journey as a programmer, but so what? He jumped in head-first, and just wanted to share that joy. I have to take a break from HN. Sometimes this community is a real downer.

Let's be honest and realistic for a moment.There are lots of young and very enthusiastic programmers out there but at the same time there are some older and more cinical ones too.My feeling is that when the older/professional programmers read articles that seem to oversimplify their profession, they feel threatened somehow at a very low level.And personally i can understand them and I feel the same sometimes. I feel…

If we truly have senior members of the software community who feels threatened by a guy who picked up the basics of their trade in 12 weeks, they are perfect examples of why we should not have barriers to entry to our profession.

If you, after doing something for five+ years, isn't demonstrably a lot better at it than the guy who did it for 12 weeks, you have thoroughly squandered the opportunity given to you and, yes, you are extremely selfish for suggesting there should be external barriers raised to protect your advantage.

I, for one, am proud to work in an industry where the barriers to entry is only a cheap computer and an internet connection. Bring on the masses!

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#150

Post by fduran » Thu, Nov 24, 2011, 2:07 PM UTC

Oh John, I wouldn't call him a pilot, you know, he flies people in his small airplane and gets paid for it but he doesn't know how to fly helicopters or jets and he didn't study fluid dynamics, so he's a "Cessna pilot".