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How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

mattdeboard.net

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Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#131

Post by donaq »

mattdeboard wrote: post #77
cantbecool wrote: post #65

I don't understand it. Some of the people posting comments on this topic are acting extremely pompous. The word 'programmer' on a resume does not mean you're in a elite club or society. It means what the job title implies: a programmer is someone who writes computer programs. There are all different variations of skill level though, just like in any profession.

I am very surprised confused and disappointed at the parochialism here.

Don't be too surprised or confused. There are a lot of very bright people here, but remember that being bright in one area doesn't necessarily mean they'd be bright in other areas, or nice, or humble. I guess someone who spent n years working at their craft and feels that he earned the title "programmer" might get offended when some young punk says he learned how to program in 12 days. I don't feel that way but I can understand why someone else might. I think if you had said something like "How I learned enough about programming to get a job doing it in 12 weeks", they might have been more encouraging (though it would have sucked as a title!). I think it was the title more than anything else that put them off.

And don't be too disappointed. I think the majority of the people here aren't nasty. They might have said some not so nice things in a moment of pique for the above reason, but the nice thing about HN is that most of us do try to be objective and helpful. Don't be surprised if in another thread, the very same people who dissed you here praise you, help you or openly agree with you. I usually don't even notice usernames when replying or voting on posts.

Lastly, congratulations on taking a very big step on the same path most of us here are on. The path is long and difficult at times, but infinitely rewarding. Welcome to the club.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#132

Post by rimantas »

tsewlliw wrote: post #54
oz wrote: post #39

My mantra for the past 2 weeks has been that there's never been a better time to learn to code, simply because the resources are so abundant and available. I'm self-learning web development right now. Between HTML Dog, W3 Schools and Google, I have more than enough information. I wanted to play around with WordPress-fired up a VirtualBox VM with Fedora, and an hour later had completed the 'famous 5-minute install.' W…

from me to you: http://developers.whatwg.org/ is an incredible resource you might put above w3schools, despite w3schools amazing google juice.

Also this: http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/1-introduction-to-the-web...

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#133

Post by kamaal »

prophetjohn wrote: post #124
kamaal wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> but your comment largely renders advanced degrees, like PhDs, about as useful as some poorly written Java book with regard to success as a software engineer. I am not saying that at all. All I'm saying is, as programmers we tend to assume knowledge of text books and programming is all that is needed to win. And that if you have it, that is all there is that it takes to win. This is largely untrue. I have seen that…

Textbook-type knowledge of programming (and more specifically, data structures and algorithms) are not all that's required to be successful in this industry, but it's sure a hell of a lot more important than 1% of the whole puzzle. I can't say much about 12-weeks-programmer guy, but if the only skill that 12-weeks-programmer guy has is the programming skills he's obtained in those 12 weeks and the only skills 10-year…

I would do the same.

But if I find 12 weeks guy to be more productive than the CS guy.

I will be hiring the 12 weeks guy not the CS guy. I'm hiring people for getting stuff done. Not just because they know something.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#134

Post by itmag »

While some here would probably see you as just a glue coder who lacks true understanding, I at least want to applaud you.

You've established a beach head in the realm of coding; all the fancy understanding of eg recursive combinators, malloc() optimization, JOIN semantics, inheritance vs composition, etc, will come later.

Come on, we all started in PHP or QBasic. It took most of us years to become sweet ass code ninjas. What this guy has done is impressive.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#135

Post by Mvandenbergh »

crikli wrote: post #108

I can play a few Megadeth riffs and I've written two very shitty songs. This does not make me a musician or a songwriter. It makes me a dude who can create noises that resemble music. The OP groks the basics and has learned how to use Django. This does not make him a programmer. It makes him a dude who can create code that resembles a program.

Sure, but if you were currently paid to make music then I think people would consider you a musician. You might be a shitty musician, an inexperienced musician, or whatever, but if you actually made your living doing it then I don't think that people would begrudge you the title.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#136

Post by nkassis »

eurohacker wrote: post #127
mattdeboard wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"learned" was DEFINITELY an overstatement. I knew they existed is more accurate.

dont you think php would have been easier to learn than django or ruby for getting a site working ?

As I understand from the article, he didn't want to just get a site working but to learn how to program and picked, in my opinion, a good language to get started in.

Learning django was, I assume from reading the article, a way to build fun projects with the knowledge of python he had acquired.

Learn a language then how to make web pages with it is a better way to go in my view.

I

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#137

Post by bubbleburst »

Mvandenbergh wrote: post #135
crikli wrote: post #108

I can play a few Megadeth riffs and I've written two very shitty songs. This does not make me a musician or a songwriter. It makes me a dude who can create noises that resemble music. The OP groks the basics and has learned how to use Django. This does not make him a programmer. It makes him a dude who can create code that resembles a program.

Sure, but if you were currently paid to make music then I think people would consider you a musician. You might be a shitty musician, an inexperienced musician, or whatever, but if you actually made your living doing it then I don't think that people would begrudge you the title.

> ... but if you actually made your living doing

Wait till all the share prices drop to 0.

Remember the punk days ? Every dumb-ass who could play, played. How many of them are still playing ?

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#138

Post by ocdprogrammer »

postfuturist wrote: post #123
spacemanaki wrote: post #78

The amount of negativity in this thread is depressing. I think a lot of people either didn't read the article or just skimmed it. For those of you who are citing Peter Norvig's essay, I also thought of the essay when I read this; it's one of my favorites. I've read it several times because it is humbling and inspires me to rise to the challenge of really becoming a great programmer. If Matt reads it he might feel sim…

Agreed, the condescension is nauseating. It's extremely rude to tell someone who writes software as a day job and who is so enthusiastic about it that he is not a real programmer. Sure, he's closer to the beginning than the end of his journey as a programmer, but so what? He jumped in head-first, and just wanted to share that joy. I have to take a break from HN. Sometimes this community is a real downer.

Let's be honest and realistic for a moment.There are lots of young and very enthusiastic programmers out there but at the same time there are some older and more cinical ones too.My feeling is that when the older/professional programmers read articles that seem to oversimplify their profession, they feel threatened somehow at a very low level.And personally i can understand them and I feel the same sometimes. I feel that the programmers today are like a big suicidal herd waiting to be exploited by management people.I know that this will sound very awkward in US where the programmers may be at the same time entrepreneurs or self employed but in europe where the entrepreuneurs are crushed easily or have more dificulties, the view might be more conservative.How can I be happy when someone joins the profession, learns overnight some trendy technology and competes with me on some of the fewer and fewer jobs which seem to require less and less depth of knowledge and experience.Why are programmers so naive when all the other professions are restricting their gates through various tactics in order to mantain their advantages ?Again, this may sound extremely cinical and selfish but someone has to say it.Personally i feel myself betrayed by this profession which consumes my best but gives back less and less.Maybe it's just the crisis, maybe its like this only in europe or maybe not.

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#139

Post by eurohacker »

nkassis wrote: post #136
eurohacker wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dont you think php would have been easier to learn than django or ruby for getting a site working ?

As I understand from the article, he didn't want to just get a site working but to learn how to program and picked, in my opinion, a good language to get started in. Learning django was, I assume from reading the article, a way to build fun projects with the knowledge of python he had acquired. Learn a language then how to make web pages with it is a better way to go in my view. I

they used to say that php is the easiest language to learn for the beginners and get a site working,

may be the times have changed and thats not true any more ..

Re: How I Became a Programmer in ~12 Weeks

#140

Post by phektus »

hmottestad wrote: post #45
rorrr wrote: post #25

Algorithms are not even mentioned. Data structures are not there either. Sorry, you're a django coder, not a programmer.

Coder vs. programmer vs. developer vs. system architect It's not a protected title. However I doubt the guy in the article could write his own OS. Which I can. Also keep in mind the phases of learning and understanding: 1. I know nothing...this is so hard. 2. I know everything...this is so easy. 3. I know nothing (again), but this time for real since I realized there is so much more to learn. 4. I really, really, rea…

Very nice. When I first learned Django this year (after a year in Python and several years doing web development) I saw myself as an all-encompassing guru of awesomeness. A few months later I realized how big my knowledge gap is of the framework, and interviews helped me see how much I still have to work on. Easy to feel good on step#2; after that comes the true trial, and they go into cycles. Then you realize you did your 10 years and you still know very little LOL
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