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How sustainable are fake meats?

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Re: How sustainable are fake meats?

#71

Post by hourago »

asciimov wrote: post #23
an1sotropy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so frustrating how much well-entrenched subsidies and tax breaks have distorted our (consumer's) notion of what is "regular" vs "expensive".

Frustrating, no. Half the people in the US couldn't afford food if the costs weren't low. Paying subsidies is a way to keep labor costs low while keeping people fed.

> Half the people in the US couldn't afford food if the costs weren't low. Paying subsidies is a way to keep labor costs low while keeping people fed.

Or to assure a minimum well being for the population. A good economy is just a means for the goal of providing well being the citizens.

Even if keeping people fed increased labor cost over letting them starve, we should still keep people fed.

Re: How sustainable are fake meats?

#72

Post by rustybelt »

criley2 wrote: post #47
chrchr wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not actually that simple. Livestock don’t necessarily eat the same plants people eat. Cattle can eat indigestible-to-humans cellulose in grasses and turn it into meat and milk. Grass can grow on marginal land without fertilizer or irrigation, unlike food crops for humans. Pigs and chickens can eat garbage and turn them into meat and eggs.

Interesting that you chose cows which are, by far, the worst animal for the environment from the clear-cutting of old growth forests, to the shocking contribution to climate change their gases produce, to the sheer amounts of water and food it takes to grow a full cow. There's nothing on this planet (w.r.t. our diet) worse for the environment than beef. It's King Bad.

Yes, but those issues are due to modern farming practices. They're not inherent to beef as a food source. Cattle have been used for millennia to convert inedible plants growing on marginal land into human food.

Re: How sustainable are fake meats?

#73

Post by Elinvynia »

chrchr wrote: post #19
bantunes wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why this is surprising. Option A: grow plants, eat plants. Option B: grow plants, breed animals, feed plants to animals, give animal antibiotics to survive breeding pens, give animal hormones to grow faster, slaughter animal, eat animal.

It’s not actually that simple. Livestock don’t necessarily eat the same plants people eat. Cattle can eat indigestible-to-humans cellulose in grasses and turn it into meat and milk. Grass can grow on marginal land without fertilizer or irrigation, unlike food crops for humans. Pigs and chickens can eat garbage and turn them into meat and eggs.

Cows only make milk after pregnancy. That has to happen somehow. Guess what is done with her baby. Guess where the literal pus from the overworked udders ends up. Yum! All those vegetarians sure are enjoying that.

If you want to know more fun facts, check out Dairy is scary on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI

Re: How sustainable are fake meats?

#74

Post by silicon2401 »

lm28469 wrote: post #42
intrasight wrote: post #30

"fake meat" is processed food. That, IMHO, is the main difference over just eating fresh vegetables. It's more expensive because of that, and introduces externalities and risks. I see "fake meat" as a temporary crutch for people transitioning to vegetarianism.

I'm vegetarian, I like the taste of meat, I hate the taste of these "fake" meats and I'd much rather eat veggies I really don't see the point of these, they barely taste as good as the cheapest frozen meat patty you can find. It's almost like cardboard patties with a hint of burned meat taste, and it costs as much if not more than meat in most restaurants.

> I really don't see the point of these,

You just don't want to. It's very simple: they let you have a burger that mimics meat burgers, and they taste reasonably close for some of us. I love burgers and love some of the fake meat patties since I don't usually eat meat. Simple as that.

Re: How sustainable are fake meats?

#75

Post by bombcar »

gambiting wrote: post #31
toqy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Order vegetarian when eating out I've been pretty successful with the opposite, only getting meat when I eat out / special occasion and not stocking it in the house.

The other upside to this(at least here in UK) is that it's easy to find a restaurant that serves local meat and produce, but it's extremely hard to find local meat in stores - even "butchers"(I put that in quotes, since I firmly believe that 90% of British "butchers" are basically cosplaying as such and are nothing more than stores that sell factory-prepared meat in a store meant to look like a traditional butcher st…

One advantage to US "exurban? not-quite-rural? not sure what to call it but 30-50 miles from a big city" living is you can actually find smallish farms that do everything on-site and buy from them.

If you're willing to use freezers you can even stock up for quite a long time (some places will even let you pick the cow and process it for you and give you all the meat).

Re: How sustainable are fake meats?

#76

Post by coldpie »

reaperducer wrote: post #64
dairylee wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> modest goals (replacing the chicken nugget, replacing the pepperoni) Quorn have made 'Crispy Nuggets'[1] from funghi for decades. They're a great replacement for chicken nuggets and I feel like if someone ate them without realising they wouldn't question what they're eating. 1: https://www.quorn.co.uk/products/chicken-style-nuggets

My old boss gave me one of hers at lunch one day. I noticed instantly. But I'm still of a mind that if you want to promote vegetarianism, make vegetable recipes taste better; don't make the vegetables imitate something they're not.

If folks enjoy them, what's the harm? There's a brand of TVP-based taco "meat" (Fantastic World Foods) that I actually like better than beef. Perhaps your boss has fond memories related to chicken nuggets and wants to enjoy the nostalgia.

Re: How sustainable are fake meats?

#77

Post by Symmetry »

chrchr wrote: post #19
bantunes wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why this is surprising. Option A: grow plants, eat plants. Option B: grow plants, breed animals, feed plants to animals, give animal antibiotics to survive breeding pens, give animal hormones to grow faster, slaughter animal, eat animal.

It’s not actually that simple. Livestock don’t necessarily eat the same plants people eat. Cattle can eat indigestible-to-humans cellulose in grasses and turn it into meat and milk. Grass can grow on marginal land without fertilizer or irrigation, unlike food crops for humans. Pigs and chickens can eat garbage and turn them into meat and eggs.

Yeah. If we just reduced our meat consumption by somewhere between 50 and 75% we could feed the remainder off those sources and probably decrease the environmental impact of food production on net, except for cow's methane production.

Re: How sustainable are fake meats?

#78

Post by an1sotropy »

asciimov wrote: post #23
an1sotropy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so frustrating how much well-entrenched subsidies and tax breaks have distorted our (consumer's) notion of what is "regular" vs "expensive".

Frustrating, no. Half the people in the US couldn't afford food if the costs weren't low. Paying subsidies is a way to keep labor costs low while keeping people fed.

Ok, but maybe we should be shifting subsidies away from animal-based food and towards plant-based food (for humans).

"Frustrating" is by itself vague, so I agree with your point. I meant: frustrating for having an informed conversation about how a changing world and a changing climate suggest a changing diet. Past subsidies to animal agriculture make it easier for people to now dismiss new plant-based foods as fringe and not for them, because of their cost.

Re: How sustainable are fake meats?

#79

Post by kwertyoowiyop »

Spooky23 wrote: post #21
drewg123 wrote: post #2

From the article: " even poorly produced plant-based meats are better, environmentally, than meat from well-raised livestock. "

Strong disagree. There's a shit-ton of money riding on that being an answer as companies like Nestle are looking to create vertically integrated markets for nutrition. These huge conglomerates created the sickness of feedlots, etc to kill the labor unions, and are now peddling the cure for the problems they created to you - eat shittier fake products with most of the downsides of the original process. It would make m…

When I eat a vegetable it tastes like sweet revenge on those conglomerates.

Re: How sustainable are fake meats?

#80

Post by bombcar »

silicon2401 wrote: post #70
schnevets wrote: post #25

My wife is pescatarian, which has really lowered my consumption of meat. There is such a weird contrast between meat marketing and the actual use. With my reduced consumption, I am still sometimes pulled in by marketing: the masterfully grilled steak; the shawarma roasting on a spit; the artisanal burger with a delicate balance of ground beef, fat, sausage, and maybe one or two secret ingredients... ...but this expec…

> My wife is pescatarian Not a judgment on your wife, but sharing for general awareness: I would eat land animals before eating fish again. You can read Outlaw Ocean for a quick look at how awful the seafood industry is. The seafood industry has everything from slavery, abuse, animal population decimation, and more, which is directly supported by anyone who eats seafood: > Do you know if the fish on your plate is leg…

It is entirely possible to avoid wild-caught fish and only eat farmed, which can have the advantage of sourcing from inside the country.
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