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Don't ignore the janitor

happychasing.substack.com

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Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#251

Post by RHSeeger »

blueflow wrote: post #218
RHSeeger wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is overly condescending of rich folks. The "I wasn't looking for a real, detailed answer to _how are you_" is a common thing in the US. It's a pleasantry, and (for people you aren't close to), most people don't expect a detailed answer. It is in NO way unique to rich, poor, or any other segment of society in the US.

Some people have thin skin and sometimes its tiring to work around it. I wish i could be more open about my "this and that is in shambles but i'll have managed it next week" without people getting uncomfortable.

As noted, that is in no way unique to rich, poor, old, young, or any other segment of society in the US.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#252

Post by P5fRxh5kUvp2th »

tqi wrote: post #89
greendude29 wrote: post #39

Is...being decent to everyone regardless of job status in life a new thing? Has tech come so far that we have to re-teach ourselves the basics and then brag about how we smile at "service staff"? Up next in a techbro blog post: "I have discovered that money doesn't buy happiness, and that being an asshole isn't a good thing."

I think there is just a high correlation between people for whom this "tip" isn't painfully obvious and people who think their thoughts are so valuable that they belong in a substack.

lmao, unfortunately I think this is true.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#253

Post by UIUC_06 »

dazc wrote: post #107
UIUC_06 wrote: post #37

In addition to janitors & wait staff: you can chat with the homeless people, too. You don't have to ask them about "their situation" or offer to help them. Weather, sports, the traffic... just treat them like a person who's not invisible. Before anyone jumps up & objects: yes, there are a lot of homeless who don't want to talk to you, or who are downright dangerous. You can avoid those.

How do you pick out someone as being homeless? I'm in the UK and (accepting in the US it may be different?) there is a common misconception that people who sit in shop doorways begging for money are 'homeless' people when, in fact, they are usually just people who have a drug habit they need to continually finance. The real homeless people are doing their best to blend into the background and not to look homeless. [I…

If you like to talk to people with a drug habit who just want your money, be my guest. It might be a rather focused conversation, though.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#254

Post by P5fRxh5kUvp2th »

maxFlow wrote: post #69
Cupertino95014 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The true test of character is how you treat someone who can't possibly do anything for you (anything big , I mean, not bringing your food). As for the language barrier: a smile is pretty universal.

> Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. (...) -- Ingersoll

There's a difference between knowing and understanding and the older I get the more I understand just how true this is.

I would also add the cliche that with power comes responsibilities and most people don't respect that responsibility. Mistakes happen and obliviousness is a thing (communication is never perfect), but I've been shocked by how cavalierly some people will wield power that has real effects on other human beings many times in the past.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#255

Post by 3qz »

hutzlibu wrote: post #145
3qz wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to talk to people who make 10x less than you and live in a HCOL city without making somebody feel like shit. Janitors have terrible lives and I’m sure both of us would rather not discuss it.

"Janitors have terrible lives and I’m sure both of us would rather not discuss it." There are so many articles shared here on developer depression, burn out and so on. Maybe you should try speaking with some actual janitors, some of them do quite ok. Maybe some are actually happy, because now they have a job to support their family and are not on the run anymore. Or they did not bind their happines to their bank acco…

> they have a job to support their family

They can’t afford families because they can barely afford to rent a room in a basement an hour from the office. Sometimes they share a bedroom so they can send some money back to a developing country I guess?

If they were born early enough to be home owners then they probably increase their net worth by more than me every year and it makes me feel like shit for losing the real estate lottery

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#256

Post by yaseer »

lupire wrote: post #219
yaseer wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can all joke about how Big Tech shovels some of the finest technical minds towards clicking ads. But on the plus side, the size of the tech sector in 2022 does make for much more efficient job market for technical skills, than in decades past. I would hope someone with a doctorate in mechanical engineering, who used to design jet engines, would be able adapt their skills to go work somewhere like Tesla, or a self-…

What's the (society-scale) plus side in doing useless or harmful work for good money, winning the rat race on a sinking ship?

Let's leave our dislike of particular corporate cultures aside to look at the bigger picture. They aren't the whole economy.

An efficient job market where people are matched with jobs suitable for their skills, is always a good thing.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#257

Post by shepherdjerred »

saurik wrote: post #137
shepherdjerred wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take this type of mindset often. It's something I'm trying to change. The better mindset, in my opinion, is that you can choose to do something nice for others for no reason other than to help someone else out.

The point I was making is that someone else's job isn't being nice to them, because you aren't doing something nice FOR THEM you are instead doing something nice FOR THEIR EMPLOYER as the amount of money they are paid or the load of tasks they are being given will adjust behind the scenes. It isn't intuitive, but once pointed out I hope it becomes obvious? If you do enough of their job for them, they get fired :(. If…

I see your point. There's no reason to hire a janitor if there's nothing to clean. I don't think there's a simple answer.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#258

Post by FumblingBear »

tialaramex wrote: post #193

I thought this might be about physical security. If you claim to have a secure working environment, I'm not looking for an unsecured VPN, or an unpatched SSH server, I'm asking who cleans up. The two correct answers are: * Nobody, that's why this place looks like a fucking wreck. * We all take turns, I hate it. If you have cleaners, there is no way that's not a security risk. Firstly you probably pay a contractor, wh…

Our custodial staff come into secure facilities to clean—they just need to be escorted by a person who does have an active security clearance. We have a duty roster that everybody rotates through in the office space for both lockup and escorting custodial staff.

It's only a security risk if you don't mitigate it through physical security policies.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#259

Post by deltasevennine »

nobody9999 wrote: post #72
deltasevennine wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

>I'm saying everyone including you participates in this fake BS. As if being nice to the janitor solves the fundamental problem. It just covers it up. Are you're saying that unless other folks make as much money as you do, they should not be treated with simple human respect, because doing so points up the inequality in our society? Wow. Being kind to the folks around you has nothing to do with wealth/income inequali…

>Are you're saying that unless other folks make as much money as you do, they should not be treated with simple human respect, because doing so points up the inequality in our society?

Are you putting words in my mouth?

Wow.

Being kind to folks is basic knowledge. Everyone knows it. The article is obvious. It's not telling anyone anything new. Why was such an obvious article written? For what purpose. Certainly not to teach engineers to be nice to poor people. That's obvious... no need to teach them.

It was written to make you feel better about yourself and your relative position to the people you step on everyday when they clean your toilet because you can't clean it yourself.

>I'm not telling you what to do, think or say, but I hope i never meet you.

How ironic. Being kind is basic knowledge. Yet you say something like this while purporting to be kind... even though it's quite obvious we are unlikely to ever meet. Why waste energy to say something we both know? Why did you say something so obvious?

You said it to be mean. While pretending not to be mean. Why? Because it makes you feel better.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#260

Post by deltasevennine »

nl wrote: post #101
deltasevennine wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

This is an extremely weird take. I know people who are much richer than me. I don't feel patronized when they say Hi to me. The fact that a person is doing a lower paid job doesn't mean that others are stepping on them.

You're not cleaning their toilets are you? Janitors are nearly at the bottom of the ladder. It's an entirely different situation.
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