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Don't ignore the janitor

happychasing.substack.com

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Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#191

Post by mrweasel »

benj111 wrote: post #178
mrweasel wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weird part for me is that people don't say good morning for instance. I can see small-talk not being appropriate in many situations, and it's just stealing peoples time. It's the lack of acknowledgement I find weird. As you say, just a smile and or nod, that's fine. I'd have to force myself pretty hard to ignore anyone when coming into the office in the morning. It's not forced politeness or insincere, is it what…

I'm guessing you don't come from a big city? I find the more rural you get, the more people will actually interact. Here in the UK there's a definite north south divide too. Relevant: https://youtu.be/PT0ay9u1gg4

I do not, I didn't mean out in the general public though. I was thinking more at work, in shops, getting on the bus, things like that. I can see the issue in large scale, no point in saying good morning to everyone you meet if you work in a New York skyscraper, that would take all day and be sort of weird.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#192

Post by _8j50 »

benj111 wrote: post #178
mrweasel wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weird part for me is that people don't say good morning for instance. I can see small-talk not being appropriate in many situations, and it's just stealing peoples time. It's the lack of acknowledgement I find weird. As you say, just a smile and or nod, that's fine. I'd have to force myself pretty hard to ignore anyone when coming into the office in the morning. It's not forced politeness or insincere, is it what…

I'm guessing you don't come from a big city? I find the more rural you get, the more people will actually interact. Here in the UK there's a definite north south divide too. Relevant: https://youtu.be/PT0ay9u1gg4

I've had rural people get offended for not starting smalltalk at a dmv line.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#193

Post by tialaramex »

I thought this might be about physical security.

If you claim to have a secure working environment, I'm not looking for an unsecured VPN, or an unpatched SSH server, I'm asking who cleans up. The two correct answers are:

* Nobody, that's why this place looks like a fucking wreck.

* We all take turns, I hate it.

If you have cleaners, there is no way that's not a security risk. Firstly you probably pay a contractor, which means you're not even interviewing or vetting these staff. The contractor will say they do that, but they're actually picking up as many illiterate immigrants as they can who'll take less than minimum wage and be happy nobody checked their documentation, because they keep the profits. Even if the management doesn't do that, their people on the ground do. Secondly, even if you hire these staff yourself, realistically your standards are poor and turnover is high. Nobody has "Clean up other people's trash" as their career goal except in some vague "Fix the Pacific garbage island" elevator pitch sense.

So either way if I want access to your "secure" environment I just have to pretend to need the work and ignore all the red flags to get a cleaning job. And then, as the article implies, I become invisible. A guy in a Ninja outfit roaming the offices late at night is a call to the cops. But put them in overalls and give them a black plastic sack now they're a cleaner, carry on. What's in the sack? It's just garbage of course. Well, OK it's the 23-25 financial strategy, a copy of our internal price list and six unlabelled USB drives that used to be on people's desks. No problem, the black sack covers many sins.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#194

Post by _8j50 »

minimilian wrote: post #129
_8j50 wrote: post #106

I try to avoid strangers. If I was a janitor I wouldn't want people bothering me, especially because they feel bad for me or they feel guilty. You shouldn't be rude and I have no problem with and do nod/smile at cleaning/security/service staff but I am not good at smalltalk or whatever so I treat everyone the same and ignore people unless I know them and have something to talk about. I really dislike insincere or for…

Quoted post unavailable.

I use grammarly to avoid citations from the grammar police like this for professional writing but not for HN. You understood what I meant so since this is a comments section keep the policing and unsolicited advice to oneself.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#195

Post by b112 »

benj111 wrote: post #178
mrweasel wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weird part for me is that people don't say good morning for instance. I can see small-talk not being appropriate in many situations, and it's just stealing peoples time. It's the lack of acknowledgement I find weird. As you say, just a smile and or nod, that's fine. I'd have to force myself pretty hard to ignore anyone when coming into the office in the morning. It's not forced politeness or insincere, is it what…

I'm guessing you don't come from a big city? I find the more rural you get, the more people will actually interact. Here in the UK there's a definite north south divide too. Relevant: https://youtu.be/PT0ay9u1gg4

This video is literal in a way. When I moved from a small town (1200 people, largest village in my county) to the city, people gave me really weird looks when I waved and said hi, when passing them in the street.

Definitely different. Had to get used to that fast.

Reminds me of this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SRvUxIaD-cY

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#196

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

alliao wrote: post #52
Gigachad wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably makes them respect the space more when they are responsible for keeping it clean.

my granddad who was educated by Japanese says the crappiest stuff that made you clean like you meant it; don't read on if you don't want to be obsessed with cleaning stuff. on how to leaving any space... Even a bird will leave their nest in a tidy manner. on how to clean... treat the object you want to clean like it's your soul And man oh man did I wiped those mirrors...

> Even a bird will leave their nest in a tidy manner.

I love the Japanese ethos of Community (but don't always find myself in agreement with some of the other aphorisms, like "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down.").

However, the person responsible for that gem has obviously never looked into a hawk's nest.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#197

Post by _8j50 »

mrweasel wrote: post #191
benj111 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you don't come from a big city? I find the more rural you get, the more people will actually interact. Here in the UK there's a definite north south divide too. Relevant: https://youtu.be/PT0ay9u1gg4

I do not, I didn't mean out in the general public though. I was thinking more at work, in shops, getting on the bus, things like that. I can see the issue in large scale, no point in saying good morning to everyone you meet if you work in a New York skyscraper, that would take all day and be sort of weird.

If I engaging with you I will say hi or good morning or whatever but not because you exist in a store I am also in for example.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#198

Post by m0llusk »

This can also be something of a trap. For some time now I have worked as a housecleaner and there is a common scenario that I have learned to avoid: Clients are friendly and ask how you are. Cleaners then answer honestly about how this is an opportunity for them and hard physical work is all between them and crushing poverty. Clients are generally unprepared for the extreme problems that people living as cleaners may face, so the conversation tend to end roughly with clients wishing they had stuck to basic politeness instead of daring genuine inquisitiveness. As a result, when I train people to work with me as cleaners I specifically recommend that they be polite and conversational, but focus as much as possible on the task and the client. The reality is that most clients of cleaners tend to be genuinely disturbed by how cleaners live in this society and the challenges they face, so it is better to gloss over all of that.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#199

Post by blitzar »

tqi wrote: post #89
greendude29 wrote: post #39

Is...being decent to everyone regardless of job status in life a new thing? Has tech come so far that we have to re-teach ourselves the basics and then brag about how we smile at "service staff"? Up next in a techbro blog post: "I have discovered that money doesn't buy happiness, and that being an asshole isn't a good thing."

I think there is just a high correlation between people for whom this "tip" isn't painfully obvious and people who think their thoughts are so valuable that they belong in a substack.

You have to be nice to the little people that read substacks; they after-all are people too, not as smart, sucessful, attractive and knowledgeable as ones self, but still deserving of a lesson or two in life to help them.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#200

Post by JoeAltmaier »

saurik wrote: post #133
bennyp101 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet you don't clear your table at McDonalds either :p

I actually do, but the reasoning isn't because I am deluding myself into thinking I am being kind to the employees (it is because I am trying to be kind to the customers, by making the food cheaper). I realize you want to be nice to other people, but you should realize you are doing it wrong (or at least doing it to a different set of people than you intended)... as noted, I treat the janitors with respect and don't…

Trying to guess what the lesson is here. Don't lift a finger to cooperate with coworkers, because it's "not my job"?

We're talking simple respect. The strawman of 'pick up their job function' appeared out of thin air.

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