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Ask HN: Pitfalls in jumping ship to a client company?

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31–40 of 48 posts

Re: Ask HN: Pitfalls in jumping ship to a client company?

#31
Legal or not, it's possible current employer raises enough hell that the client says "not worth it." Now you've lost the new job and your current employer knows you're unhappy and less loyal than expected.

Maybe it doesn't go that sideways? But if it does, don't be surprised. Be prepared.

Re: Ask HN: Pitfalls in jumping ship to a client company?

#32

It is common for consulting or professional services contracts to include non-solicitation clauses. In other words, the client company may have already committed to your employer that they would not hire any of its employees for the duration of the contract and for some time after. If you were not involved in the negotiation and signing of the engagement agreement, then you probably don't have any way to find out if…

Any agreement not to hire employees without including the employees in the negoation would be illegal therefore void in most countries. Including the US where Apple and Google (maybe someone else) were caught having agreements not to hire from each other. It removes the ability for the employee to find the best salary/option/etc for themselves.

There is a difference between overall no-hire agreements (which indeed won't stand in many places) and specific clauses covering only people involved in a common project (and that often don't strictly prevent hiring, but e.g. require compensation).

Re: Ask HN: Pitfalls in jumping ship to a client company?

#33
Something I have not seen mentioned - just beware you might end up "stuck" at the new company doing nothing other than working with/on that very same piece of software you're currently working on.

They may never want to promote you or let you move to another team if you're "The Expert"(TM).

Re: Ask HN: Pitfalls in jumping ship to a client company?

#34
I worked at a small company where a vendor poached the team member that worked closely with the vendor.

The company was pretty bitter about it and switched vendors, and the CEO would often bad-mouth the vendor at speaking events with other small company teams.

Nobody was really nasty to the former colleague, although there was some light shade thrown their way as well.

You don't mention company size but if these are boutique shops or startups with sub 20 employees, and you aren't a role they regularly hire for, expect reputational damage to your new employer, you, or both in whatever sphere of influence your former employer has.

Re: Ask HN: Pitfalls in jumping ship to a client company?

#35
post #33

Something I have not seen mentioned - just beware you might end up "stuck" at the new company doing nothing other than working with/on that very same piece of software you're currently working on. They may never want to promote you or let you move to another team if you're "The Expert"(TM).

I’ve experience a sad opposite of this as well… it was a slightly different situation though. The consulting company was my own company, and a client convinced me to join their team as a T4 (Canada) employee and essentially drop the rest of my clients. At the time, things were slow and I loved the team I was working with, so I figured “why not?”

What ended up happening is that I got rolled into their (relatively broken) normal software development process. Advice and solutions that they would have previously asked for and let me solve turned into protracted internal meetings and discussions and seemed to carry a lot less weight than they did before. What would have been a simple meeting and SOW discussion and contract got turned into months of debate, meanwhile I was just helping random teams do bug fixes. The relationship completely changed and I ended up leaving about 6 months in when I started to feel like I was losing my edge and not being nearly as effective as I could be.

Re: Ask HN: Pitfalls in jumping ship to a client company?

#36
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any agreement not to hire employees without including the employees in the negoation would be illegal therefore void in most countries. Including the US where Apple and Google (maybe someone else) were caught having agreements not to hire from each other. It removes the ability for the employee to find the best salary/option/etc for themselves.

There is a difference between overall no-hire agreements (which indeed won't stand in many places) and specific clauses covering only people involved in a common project (and that often don't strictly prevent hiring, but e.g. require compensation).

I would suspect the same thing applies. Two companies are making agreements that affect a third parties ability to freely market their services. Non-compete clauses in employee contracts are in many countries not legally binding because they affect the employees ability to freely market their services. And in some countries where they are valid, they're are often very strict requirements on what can be put in the clause. I've literally had multiple contracts with non-compete clauses, not a single one was valid.

Clauses such as "If you hire this person you owe us X for an introduction fee" however would be more likely to be valid.

Re: Ask HN: Pitfalls in jumping ship to a client company?

#37
I did this and it was the best thing I ever did for my career. The contracting company was kinda neglecting the contract and the company I moved over was fed up. The company ended up agreeing to end the contract in exchange for my non-compete to be nullified.

Re: Ask HN: Pitfalls in jumping ship to a client company?

#39
post #29

I work for a consultancy in the UK. Occasionally someone leaves us to join a client. Our contracts with our clients prevent "solicitation" i.e. trying to encourage some to leave us to join them. In practice we never use those clauses - it's almost always better to maintain good relationships and reputation with clients. Plus it's legal for our employees to move jobs to them, it's just the solicitation bit that's not…

> Our contracts with our clients prevent "solicitation" i.e. trying to encourage some to leave us to join them.

I have seen same thing, it is no solicitation but if someone joins on their own then it is not a breach of contract. In fact, I learned about this because once I asked one of our vendor (also friend) to apply for a job in our company, in front of my boss. My boss immediately corrected me that we cannot make such a comment.

Later she told me it is totally fine if he applied on his own but any hint of solicitation from us will disqualify him or get us in trouble.

Also with the same vendor, I had seen their people joining our company quite a bit. And they continued to do business with us.

Re: Ask HN: Pitfalls in jumping ship to a client company?

#40

Perspective context: Am CTO who has converted consultants to staff before. There is nothing stopping you personally from changing roles like everyone says and non competes are not enforceable in California. However B2B contracts usually don't have any such limitations, so there might be a liability for damages between the client and your current company. This is the main reason you need to raise this up to people who…

great point on the contracts side, I will look into this
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