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Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

bbc.com

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Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#61

Post by stephen_g »

rajup wrote: post #47
upwardbound wrote: post #20

Here is some more detail about the ongoing human slavery that Keith spoke of and which phantomathkg linked to as well. https://www.ap.org/explore/seafood-from-slaves/fishing-slave... Fucking sad. I can't believe literal chattel slavery is this widespread. If you're considering becoming vegetarian or at least eating less meat and fish, maybe this is another reason to consider it. Either way, I hope we can find ways to…

I’m a lifelong vegetarian, I think many crop industries might have similar abuse? What is it about meat/fish that makes it more prone to abuse?

Yeah, even here in Australia, some of the closest we have to slave labour is temporary migrants picking fruit and vegetables... Going vegetarian would do very little I think if you care about this issue.

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#62

Post by ars »

jxramos wrote: post #37
ars wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why insects? Tilapia eat plants, and other fish eat tilapia.

Wow a vegetarian fish, I never contemplated such a thing. What kind of plants do they eat anyways?

They eat basically anything. They are a very non picky fish. Algae is a favorite.

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#63

Post by ars »

_freek wrote: post #35
ars wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already slowing going away anyway, being replaced by fish farms: https://ourworldindata.org/rise-of-aquaculture I can't seem to find any source with data past 2015. Aquaculture is already cheaper than wild caught. In stores (judging by labels) wild caught is already becoming marketed as a "premium" product, with prices to match, which will reduce demand.

Fish farms have their own problems. The amount of waste it generates, sea lice issues and the fact they feed their ‘premium’ fish tons of ‘fish meal’ as a source of omega 3 which still needs to be caught. It’s a step up from fishing at an industrial scale but not sustainable in the end.

You can feed them tilapia. And tilapia eat plants, there's no reason it can't be sustainable.

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#64

Post by maxbond »

nkingsy wrote: post #59
maxbond wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then when we get together as a global community to ban fishing, let's also agree to pay for the transition to aquaculture and other sustainable forms of acquiring protein (according to the renewable resources available in a given region). If "take away their livelihood without giving them an alternative" isn't acceptable - and of course it isn't - "let's do nothing" isn't the only alternative we should consider.

Aquaculture is dependent on ocean fishing

To catch fry right? This is a good point but it does seem like it would be possible to overcome with better aquaculture technology (eg, the ability to breed fry in captivity). I'm certainly not an expert in aquaculture, I've done a small amount of work with aquaponics systems and am more bullish on spirulina and chlorella cultivation (algae cultivation) than aquaculture, but aquaculture seemed more relevant as a drop in replacement for fishing.

Consider it a metanym of for the technology that best meets the needs a given local community, using the resources which are available in that environment, while doing the least harm to the environment which is possible given the constraints. I'm not an absolutist, and my goal is to argue against a false dichotomy rather than to advocate for any particular technology.

Sustainability necessarily means taking into account the resources available in a given local environment, so the question of whether a given technology is useful or sustainable only has meaning if we flesh out that context.

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#65

Post by spookierookie »

So, everybody knows that almost certainly the crew killed him, and the crew and their company and their vessel just walks?

And that keeps happening...

I'd propose in any subsequent event of a missing observer captain does time, ship seized, company closed and that's done even before police starting asking questions. I bet there wouldn't be any missing observer after that.

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#66

Post by zo1 »

sunsunsunsun wrote: post #17
neodypsis wrote: post #12

Is anybody here working on remote sensing applications for identifying illegal fishing?

Yep, I work for and there are several companies working on this problem. I specifically work for a company creating USVs to fight the issue on the water but there are others working on solutions from the air and space.

A bit jealous here! Care to share a bit about how you got into this field?

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#67

Post by paganel »

stephen_g wrote: post #61
rajup wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a lifelong vegetarian, I think many crop industries might have similar abuse? What is it about meat/fish that makes it more prone to abuse?

Yeah, even here in Australia, some of the closest we have to slave labour is temporary migrants picking fruit and vegetables... Going vegetarian would do very little I think if you care about this issue.

The same thing happens here in Romania when it comes to potato harvesting, of all things. The people doing it are taking advantage of poor people from a few counties away, desperate to find jobs, oftentimes this desperate people bringing their kids with them.

Here's [1] an example from a few years ago, article in Romanian but that photo of the "accommodation" provided should be enough. Eight kids were also caught up in it all.

[1] https://click.ro/actualitate/national/ei-tineau-opt-copii-ca...

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#68

Post by beachy »

superchroma wrote: post #49
beachy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because blowing up a boat crewed by poor third world sailors trying to make some money to feed their families back home is a truly proportionate response.

Yes, it is. Because these people think that destroying the entire ocean is their right, and they're basically cutting throats to get ahead, and they'll never be on the hook for all the nets they cut and dump in the ocean, all the vulnerable fish they ravage and all the other damage they do.

Perhaps a fair comment about the boats owners or the fishing company's shareholders.

Not so much about the poor saps that crew it.

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#69

Post by idontwantthis »

upwardbound wrote: post #20

Here is some more detail about the ongoing human slavery that Keith spoke of and which phantomathkg linked to as well. https://www.ap.org/explore/seafood-from-slaves/fishing-slave... Fucking sad. I can't believe literal chattel slavery is this widespread. If you're considering becoming vegetarian or at least eating less meat and fish, maybe this is another reason to consider it. Either way, I hope we can find ways to…

Not trying to normalize, just adding to the horror: Slavery is huge in South East Asia for all kinds of industries.

In Cambodia it's well known that people from neighboring countries (especially Vietnam and Philippines) are lured in with promises of good jobs and then have their passports taken and aren't allowed to leave. It's like a combination of slavery and ransom. Or worse up to and including organ harvesting.

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#70

Post by skrebbel »

spookierookie wrote: post #65

So, everybody knows that almost certainly the crew killed him, and the crew and their company and their vessel just walks? And that keeps happening... I'd propose in any subsequent event of a missing observer captain does time, ship seized, company closed and that's done even before police starting asking questions. I bet there wouldn't be any missing observer after that.

I’ll never understand how passionately people will argue for a society without any form of civic justice, just because they’re angry about something they read on the internet.

Just lock random people up without due process! That’ll teach them!

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