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Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

bbc.com

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Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#51

Post by upwardbound »

rajup wrote: post #47
upwardbound wrote: post #20

Here is some more detail about the ongoing human slavery that Keith spoke of and which phantomathkg linked to as well. https://www.ap.org/explore/seafood-from-slaves/fishing-slave... Fucking sad. I can't believe literal chattel slavery is this widespread. If you're considering becoming vegetarian or at least eating less meat and fish, maybe this is another reason to consider it. Either way, I hope we can find ways to…

I’m a lifelong vegetarian, I think many crop industries might have similar abuse? What is it about meat/fish that makes it more prone to abuse?

A big aspect is that much fishing takes place in international waters, where abuses are hard to document and it's possible to get away with murder (as in Keith's case).

That said, you are 100% right that the palm oil industry specifically is ripe with abuse including chattel slavery. :( Please avoid palm oil if you can.

https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/blog/slavery-palm-oil-indus...

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#52

Post by wumpus »

rajup wrote: post #47
upwardbound wrote: post #20

Here is some more detail about the ongoing human slavery that Keith spoke of and which phantomathkg linked to as well. https://www.ap.org/explore/seafood-from-slaves/fishing-slave... Fucking sad. I can't believe literal chattel slavery is this widespread. If you're considering becoming vegetarian or at least eating less meat and fish, maybe this is another reason to consider it. Either way, I hope we can find ways to…

I’m a lifelong vegetarian, I think many crop industries might have similar abuse? What is it about meat/fish that makes it more prone to abuse?

This has nothing to do with vegetarians, and responding will only bring woe.

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#53

Post by superchroma »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #26
jacknews wrote: post #4

Commercial fishing at sea should be banned IMHO. It's unsustainable, and even if quotas could make it sustainable, they are all but unenforceable.

Oceans have been terribly overfished, but people need to eat. Many poorer countries rely on fishing to help then feed their populations. Banning commercial fishing would be like banning commercial chicken. A huge loss of a major cheap source of protein, and nothing to replace it with.

That's too bad. Nobody told people to have all those mouths to feed. The oceans are overfished and heavily polluted and people need the ocean to survive. If people rely on fucking up the ocean, we're all in trouble.

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#54

Post by philliphaydon »

ArnoVW wrote: post #38
philliphaydon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit hard to escort when most illegal fishing happens in international waters.

Most fishing happens in economic Exclusion zones (200 miles out), over which states have souvereignty https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone

Yes but I said illegal fishing.

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#55

Post by BiteCode_dev »

wumpus wrote: post #52
rajup wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a lifelong vegetarian, I think many crop industries might have similar abuse? What is it about meat/fish that makes it more prone to abuse?

This has nothing to do with vegetarians, and responding will only bring woe.

I believe the parent comment agree with you and is mentioning he is vegetarians so that answers focus on why fishing makes it's easy for slavery given there are abuses in agricultures as well.

Thank to this, he was able to ask a question that was uneasy to ask, and get the answer about international waters, making it an interesting addition to the whole thread.

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#56

Post by wumpus »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #55
wumpus wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with vegetarians, and responding will only bring woe.

I believe the parent comment agree with you and is mentioning he is vegetarians so that answers focus on why fishing makes it's easy for slavery given there are abuses in agricultures as well. Thank to this, he was able to ask a question that was uneasy to ask, and get the answer about international waters, making it an interesting addition to the whole thread.

@upwardbound appears to be mentioning vegetarians as flamebait, so if you want to engage with that, be my guest.

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#57

Post by Guthur »

maxbond wrote: post #48
Guthur wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh you so benevolent, force people at gun point to abide by your will, right?

Ignoring the snark, it's an interesting point and I'm not in favor of using violence to achieve any ends. Not interested in waiting around to die because some large fishing interests are structurally incapable of behaving responsibly, either, though. Just as I reject that our only options are to either screw over fishing communities or do nothing, I reject that our only alternatives are violence or doing nothing. I d…

Not you nor anyone else has any proof of any collapse, it is hyperbolic nonsense.

The problem is that all and I mean all of these idealogical driven agendas require tyranny because I for one do not agree with your world view.

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#58

Post by kurthr »

upwardbound wrote: post #21
upwardbound wrote: post #20

Here is some more detail about the ongoing human slavery that Keith spoke of and which phantomathkg linked to as well. https://www.ap.org/explore/seafood-from-slaves/fishing-slave... Fucking sad. I can't believe literal chattel slavery is this widespread. If you're considering becoming vegetarian or at least eating less meat and fish, maybe this is another reason to consider it. Either way, I hope we can find ways to…

> The men left their impoverished homes years ago full of hope and headed to neighboring Thailand, promising to send money back from good-paying jobs. Instead, they were tricked, sold or even kidnapped and put onto boats that became floating prisons. They then were trafficked thousands of miles away to the isolated Indonesian island village of Benjina, where the AP first found hundreds of captive fishermen, including…

Being Shanghaied is still a thing.

I wish this was TIL, unfortunately I already did.

The world is a much more brutal place than many in the developed world realize.

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#59

Post by nkingsy »

maxbond wrote: post #33
dukeofdoom wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oceans have been terribly overfished, but people need to eat. Many poorer countries rely on fishing to help then feed their populations. Banning commercial fishing would be like banning commercial chicken. A huge loss of a major cheap source of protein, and nothing to replace it with.

Then when we get together as a global community to ban fishing, let's also agree to pay for the transition to aquaculture and other sustainable forms of acquiring protein (according to the renewable resources available in a given region). If "take away their livelihood without giving them an alternative" isn't acceptable - and of course it isn't - "let's do nothing" isn't the only alternative we should consider.

Aquaculture is dependent on ocean fishing

Re: Keith Davis was protecting the oceans, then he disappeared

#60

Post by maxbond »

Guthur wrote: post #57
maxbond wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring the snark, it's an interesting point and I'm not in favor of using violence to achieve any ends. Not interested in waiting around to die because some large fishing interests are structurally incapable of behaving responsibly, either, though. Just as I reject that our only options are to either screw over fishing communities or do nothing, I reject that our only alternatives are violence or doing nothing. I d…

Not you nor anyone else has any proof of any collapse, it is hyperbolic nonsense. The problem is that all and I mean all of these idealogical driven agendas require tyranny because I for one do not agree with your world view.

I hope you'll reconsider this approach to conversation. You don't even know my worldview or my ideology, you seem to be reacting to some imagined worst case for what my world view could be. This is pretty gratuitous and makes it difficult to have a conversation with you; you aren't actually having a discussion with me, you're trying to engage with a phenomenon you imagine that I'm a part of. You're taking some views I've expressed and generalizing them to my entire world view, filling in the blanks with the least charitable assumptions you could make.

For that reason, it doesn't seem there's a productive way for me to engage with you.

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