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Don't ignore the janitor

happychasing.substack.com

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Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#41

Post by deltasevennine »

II2II wrote: post #20
deltasevennine wrote: post #12

I ignore the janitor because of the obvious wealth disparity between us. He works just as hard as me but is doing a job nobody likes and is paid less for it. It's completely unfair. And when I just see the janitor it's all I think about. This article is like, be nice to the people you step on. Yeah. I don't disagree with that sentiment.

> This article is like, be nice to the people you step on. The first step is to not step on those people. Simple things matter, like following simple requests (e.g. the placing the trash can next to the door mentioned in another thread). Attitude matters too. There is a reason why some places call janitors caretakers: they are there to maintain the physical spaces people work in, not to clean up people's messes.

You don't get it.

I'm saying every engineer is stepping on him by virtue of being paid 10x more. We all step on him but NONE of us acknowledge it. We're all posers, pretending that being nice to him makes any difference.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#42

Post by greendude29 »

suprjami wrote: post #28

I cannot stand it when people ignore (or even worse, are hostile to) custodial staff. If anyone ever thinks taking out the trash is an unimportant job, try living without rubbish collection for a week. Suddenly it will become very important! Show some appreciation for these people doing a very laborious and repetitive job for minimal pay, often outside regular business hours, and so probably cuts into their family ti…

Agreed, but basic respect shouldn't be dependent on whether or not someone has an important job.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#43

Post by deltasevennine »

knorker wrote: post #32
deltasevennine wrote: post #12

I ignore the janitor because of the obvious wealth disparity between us. He works just as hard as me but is doing a job nobody likes and is paid less for it. It's completely unfair. And when I just see the janitor it's all I think about. This article is like, be nice to the people you step on. Yeah. I don't disagree with that sentiment.

You don't have to make things worse, adding insult to injury. A 'hi' and smile costs nothing. Please at least give that. We're not asking that you give them part of your salary.

I'm not insulting the janitor. I'm insulting myself. And you. And everyone else who works at the company who steps on him. I'm saying, that a "hi" and a smile is utter bullshit. We all know we're stepping on him and a "hi" and a "smile" is opium to make us feel better about ourselves.

You completely misinterpreted the post.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#44

Post by Shared404 »

FoomFries wrote: post #34
grammarnazzzi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Further, try to abide by their requests. If they want the trash can by the door to your office or cubicle on Thursday evening, move the damn trashcan to the door. Better yet, take your damn trashcan out to the damn dumpster your own damn self. Then we can save some damn money and fire the damn janitor. > They have 100 to empty; it's a trivial task for you. It's a trivial part of their job. They're getting paid for…

Trivialities in logistics and their impact on you as a person are two different things. If I added 500ms of latency to a keyboard (ssh, a bunch of VPNs, etc) I imagine a janitor would say ‘it’s a trivial part of your job, you’re getting paid for it.’ Yet that would cause many developers to pull their hair out.

That's an extraordinarly good analogy, which I was not able to come up with myself despite thinking about it for a couple minutes. Thanks!

Source: Am currently doing server admin/code work, have done food service and janitorial in the past.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#45

Post by greendude29 »

deltasevennine wrote: post #12

I ignore the janitor because of the obvious wealth disparity between us. He works just as hard as me but is doing a job nobody likes and is paid less for it. It's completely unfair. And when I just see the janitor it's all I think about. This article is like, be nice to the people you step on. Yeah. I don't disagree with that sentiment.

I see what you're saying and I'm half way there with you.

The important things are:

a) don't ignore (just in the same way you won't ignore any other person, it's not a status thing, just a human thing)

b) don't patronize - the comments in this thread and the general "be nice to poor people" has a feel good condescension written all over it, which you're rightly calling out. But it is possible (and baseline important) to be respectful to anyone and not be condescending.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#46

Post by dr_kiszonka »

I often work till the very late evening, which gives me a chance to meet most of the custodial staff. Some of them have very good, eye-opening stories, showing me how lucky I am in life (and I am making waaaay below what I perceive HN folks to earn). It is also a good opportunity to practice foreign languages and to try some foods I haven't eaten before. (I sometimes bring some homemade food for folks who take care of the office and they sometimes reciprocate, even though I do my best to make it clear that they don't have to.)

I would highly recommend trying to get to know the "janitors!"

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#47

Post by deltasevennine »

swatcoder wrote: post #38
deltasevennine wrote: post #12

I ignore the janitor because of the obvious wealth disparity between us. He works just as hard as me but is doing a job nobody likes and is paid less for it. It's completely unfair. And when I just see the janitor it's all I think about. This article is like, be nice to the people you step on. Yeah. I don't disagree with that sentiment.

If you step back and look at what you wrote, you’re saying you believe wealth disparity is awkward, and that you find it less awkward to ignore a person. The person you choose to ignore might not agree with you on either of those points, but you don’t let yourself find that out because you won’t talk to them. It might do you good to second guess yourself now and then, in order to escape these local minima.

No post body was provided.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#48

Post by 4oo4 »

a-dub wrote: post #26

some custodians like to shoot the shit. others do not. same with lobby staff. when they do i've found that it's worth listening, they sometimes have very interesting things to say. same used to go for nyc cab drivers, although it's a bit different in the uber era. i have a book sitting on my shelf that was written (and self promoted) by a cab driver.

Very true. Everyone at the very least deserves a basic greeting and acknowledgement, but it's unrealistic to expect anyone on the job to socialize at length.

Especially if that person was just berated or humiliated by someone "important" on a power trip, extremely stressed by the job, or is preoccupied with personal issues that you have no idea about.

I've been in that position before.

I think privilieged people that don't have the same kind of stressors in their life that working class people frequently have, can then scoff when that person doesn't have the time or energy for a conversation, as if they expect those beneath them to entertain them with conversation in addition to their job duties.

It's surprising how much taking 5 seconds to say "Hi, how's it going" can improve any interaction.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#49

Post by Arainach »

This seems harder in our modern world where everything is contracted out to the lowest bidder. I've had great conversations with custodial staff at schools, parks, and other areas that actually hire the workers. At my day job, a giant corporation which hires its engineers but outsources its janitors, chefs, and so on, there's a totally different vibe.

Even the few janitors that speak English are both rushed to complete their tasks in the insufficient allotted time and almost terrified to talk to the normal employees, presumably due to the perceived power balance - were an employee to complain about them, the vendor would almost certainly fire them rather than risk offending the client. It's not fair, but it is reality, and it means that even when I do say hello or hold a door or whatever I don't get a response.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#50

Post by vishnugupta »

greendude29 wrote: post #39

Is...being decent to everyone regardless of job status in life a new thing? Has tech come so far that we have to re-teach ourselves the basics and then brag about how we smile at "service staff"? Up next in a techbro blog post: "I have discovered that money doesn't buy happiness, and that being an asshole isn't a good thing."

It’s not exactly limited to tech but is more general to knowledge workers. Especially ones who employ support staff even at their homes. Over time they get so far removed from doing household chores that they begin to treat it as beneath them and hence the staff as unworthy of their respect.

I’m saying this being from a nation where employing household cooks, maids etc is norm once a certain income threshold is crossed, and where owing to really high inequities human labor is extremely low cost.

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